Growing Leaders (00:12.718)
Hi, The School on a Mission podcast. My name is Gina Watts. And here with me is the one, the only, Mr. Andrew McPeak. If you believe that school should be more than just essays and GPAs, if you believe that EQs are as important as IQs, and if you expect amazing things from the next generation, then you are in the right place, because we believe that too. Gina, it's been a minute. It's so good to hear those words again. So good to be sitting with you.

How does it feel to kick off this new season? It feels really good. It's so good to be back. You know, our listeners, you've been so good to us. So generous us. We're so grateful to you. And we're grateful to be on this journey with you. Now for season two, it feels like we're opening this next chapter. I think so. about tech. It's crazy. We are officially the Avengers of podcasting. I feel like that's appropriate. I don't know if I shared last season. I'd have to go back and re-listen.

if our audience knows how much I love Avengers. You're big Avengers fan. I am. I've seen all the movies. I kind of nerd out a little bit. So do my children and my husband, but it's fine. But maybe, you know, maybe Avengers is a little aggressive. You know, maybe we're not saving the world, but we're definitely saving folks' digital insanity. I think so too, right, for those folks who are driving to work right now listening to this or going on a walk or whatever it is.

I'll take that, right? We are helping, I think, people's digital sanity, but we're back. And we're driving this season, you know, we like to pick a different theme every season. We're driving this season towards some of the biggest stuff that's going on in schools right now. We are talking about technology and both the problems it's causing as well as the innovation that it's causing. So it's kind of the light and the dark side of technology. And we're starting with something that's really near and dear to my heart today. In fact,

I wrote an e-book on this subject, which is digital citizenship. It's the role we play, both adults and students, but especially students in the 21st century as members of this world we're growing up in. you all like that humble brag? I wrote an e-book. My name is Andrew. I'm an e-book author. It just came out. I'm sorry. It's fine. I'm proud of you. You're my friend. I like when you achieve and your achievements. You're able to celebrate my victories. I can. And it makes all of us better.

Growing Leaders (02:36.922)
It makes us all better. Before we dive deep into digital citizenship, we have our opening question. Let's do it. All right. So this is a fun one. What sci-fi tech do you hope becomes real in your lifetime? I love this question. I know you do. There's so many things I could think of. I'm a big sci-fi nerd. I like even read sci-fi books. That's full nerd. That is full nerd. But I think the best one has to be teleportation.

Ooh. Because like what if you were like for date night, you're like, hey, let's go back to that restaurant in Paris we like so much and you just go there. Like that's pretty dope. That is dope. That's a good one. Thank you. See, that's how you know you're a real sci-fi nerd. Yeah. Because you just. I've thought way too much about this. Yeah, you were like, already got an answer, Gina, I'm ready. Yeah. Which is yours? So I don't know if this falls fully into sci-fi, but for Gina, it falls into sci-fi. I am a time travel nerd.

Like, I love Back to the Future, Time Traveler's Wife. like, there's time travel in the title. You're into it. Or around it, yes. Okay. Okay. I will not perform Huey Lewis songs this morning, but for those of you that love Back to the That's just all of us missing out. You are. It's happening. You are. And there's just not enough room in here for me to do it. But I was thinking about this, and I was thinking about Back to the Future 2, and I was wondering, okay, almost all of the things in Back to the Future 2 are actually created.

Like almost exist today. they exist today. So I don't know if there's anything. What's left. Yeah, exactly. If I use that as my framework. So then I was like, okay, what answer could I give? I feel like somewhere, some movie or some book, because you would know this, somebody probably created some type of medicine that would heal like things like cancer. And so I went to the, can we just get rid of some of these diseases? Yeah, that would be really good.

I feel like there's probably a movie or a book that talks about it. so that's my answer. Because I went to Back to the Future and they just already solved it. Yeah, there was a really weird movie called, I think it was called Elysium. Okay. And they had a machine. I remember somebody getting in it and they were like, cancer detected and they just removed it. See? So we need that. I knew you would know that. Yeah. I didn't even have to look it up. True nerddom.

Growing Leaders (04:54.76)
Well, if somebody's listening to this and you want to just get on one of these technologies, we fully invite you to. We would not be mad about that. But we do, as Gina mentioned, already have a lot of technology at our disposal. And sometimes it gets a little hard to manage, doesn't it? In fact, it starts to kind of manage us rather than us managing it. And this is more, even more true for young people today. So I want to jump into today's topic, digital citizenship. I've been thinking a lot about this, obviously working on an ebook on it.

But this idea of what does it mean to be a responsible citizen in this digital age? And it's about way more than just being polite, right, in online spaces. In fact, a great comparison would be something like etiquette class. I don't know, did you ever have to learn etiquette? You know I did. Nana, she made sure that Girl Scout Troop 3040 at St. John the Evangelist Roman Catholic School had an etiquette class. Yes, we did.

I remember learning everything, like from, still use it to this day, like which fork to use, you work from the outside in, all of those things, how to do a proper handshake, even if you're a girl, like all of that stuff. And yeah, it was just, I think, something that was expected that you... Yeah, you know how to do these things if you're in that space, absolutely. And that's really kind of what my ebook is about. Okay, I guess that's humble brag number two or three, I can't keep up. We're just gonna move on.

I talk about the three essential skills that I feel like all of us need in the digital aid. It's sort of like the advanced form of where does the fork go, right? But it's for this digital space. And funny enough, we actually see a trend right now in young people who are realizing something has gone wrong. Like, for instance, an article I came across a couple of years ago now about a group of students in Brooklyn, New York who have created what they call a Luddite.

These teens are taking a hard look at their screen time and saying, you know what? I'm good going back in time to my flip phone. Thank you very much. And it goes against every stereotype about young people that we have today. So there is a club, like a legit club for people who ditch their smartphones. Yes. And they're young people. Yes. My mind is blown. It's wild.

Growing Leaders (07:09.184)
It's like the Gen Z version of Rebellion. Yes, it is. Instead of smashing machines like the original Luddites, they're just unplugging. They're disconnecting. Yeah, wow. I'll never forget the first time you told me their slogan. Yeah, their slogan is this, don't be a phony, but it's phony to spell with a P-H. See, that's like kind That's good. It is good. And although it's a little dad-jokey... It is, yes. I'm down for it. Especially because a bunch of high schoolers came up with it.

So I'm like, all right, this is good. But that's the way they literally put up posters in their school that says, don't be a phony, join the Luddite Club. And I just think it's pure genius, right? This Luddite Club is just one of the latest examples of this fascinating trend in kids today. Within the same population of young people who we've come to expect to be glued to their screens, and many of them still are, there is a growing cohort of dissatisfied kids who have just had enough. So Logan Lane, she's the club's founder, the Luddite Club's founder.

For her, it all began during lockdown. Her relationship with social media took this very troubling turn. I think this happened to a lot of kids. And I've got a quote from her right here. Would you mind reading it out loud for our listeners, My pleasure. I became completely consumed, she said. I couldn't not post a good picture if I had one. And I had this online personality of, I don't care, but I actually did. I was definitely still watching.

everything. think a lot if young people were listening to this right now they would identify with that thing of like I'm trying to be cool I'm trying to look like I don't care and yet I really do care and eventually she became too burned out to scroll past yet another picture perfect Instagram selfie and she decided you know what I'm deleting the app. She had this moment of awareness and recognition that this anxiety these feelings I'm feeling are because of this thing that I'm on

So a few weeks later, she decides, I'm just going to put my phone in a box. And then she went to her parents and said, hey, rather than me turning that thing on again, could you guys get me a flip phone? Which I don't, I mean, maybe her parents were expecting that, but most parents would not be expecting that. Send that iPhone back, I want a flip phone. But once Logan returned to school after lockdown, she started meeting other kids who had done the exact same thing. I actually think she said she saw somebody in the hallway with a flip phone and she went,

Growing Leaders (09:28.782)
Like you too, you know and all of a sudden these two get together and it starts growing and the Luddite club is born. Logan's story is the same reason a lot of other people are feeling burned out. Social media overload, constant comparisons, the dopamine treadmill. I mean even I get tired of seeing perfect Instagram selfies. It can really be exhausting. Exactly, yeah. And even though we might like to, we can't completely escape the digital world, right? Right. You know what Logan was able to do, what many of her classmates are able to do.

does actually give them some limitations, right? Kids still need school or need technology like email for school. They need smartphones for two-factor authentication, right? Safety is really important and so on, which means that if they're gonna be successful at navigating this world, someone needs to step up and establish new norms for this world in the same way that we established norms through etiquette for the old world, right? So, Andrew, in Spring 22.

You actually had a chance to sit down with a group of students between eighth and 12th grade for a conversation about social media and screen time. So I would just love for you to share with us what the students had to say about this. Yeah, it was amazing. I've referenced it a couple of times just because of the power of that conversation. It was my first focus group coming back from the pandemic. the topic the students themselves wanted to spend the most amount of time on.

was just how many of them of their own accord have started doing exactly what Logan Lane and her friends did in Brooklyn, which is deciding it's time for a break from their devices. Now they didn't all have flip phones, but they were beginning to step away intentionally and on their own. So Gina, I've got a few quotes here that I thought really kind of highlight what really happened and some of the significance that was going on inside of this school. So would you read a couple of these? I'd love to.

So the first student, actually it's a junior boy, so junior grade level male student, he says, I'm currently on social media, on a social media break right now. It started as a punishment because I was on it all the time. But since then, it's been kind of nice not having it. Now I don't even have a desire to go on there anymore. It's nice just being outside instead of wasting time on my phone. A senior girl says, I took a five month break last year from Instagram.

Growing Leaders (11:49.25)
For the first couple of days, I kept opening my phone and swiping to find the app, even though I deleted it. I was eventually like, this is exhausting, and I'm obviously way too addicted to this. But then I got used to it. And it was like I had so much more time on my hands. You know, another student, this time it's an eighth grade girl, she says, I was off of Instagram for like five months. I could tell that I was doing better in school because I was more focused while I was in school.

Finally, a senior girl shares, was just on a trip with a group of friends. And a group of us girls sat down to make a list of pros and cons of social media. The only pros we could think of were communication and how it helps you connect with people you haven't even met yet. It's pretty convenient. But the cons way outweighed it so much. We mainly talked about how it was a waste of time and how easy it was to compare yourself to other people. This is such

great insight from these students. I wish I was like in the room with them when they were sharing this. Yeah, all of us were kind of packed on a little table in their cafeteria having this conversation. But you know, it's amazing to me that even though all of these students have their own reasons for leaving their phones and social media behind, it represents this growing realization. Even by the students we lead, that the amount of time we're spending on devices and even the lifestyle that's being encouraged and even forced upon kids because of these devices,

is undesirable. It's undesirable for the adults who are leading them. It's undesirable for the students themselves. So whether your students are spending every waking hour on their phones or whether they don't even have one, I think it'd be impossible for somebody to live completely separate from the digital world. And this is where digital citizenship comes in. Something's wrong. Somebody's got to do something about it. I think we need new norms. So you've kind of given us an overview of what digital citizenship is, but can you break it down for us? Help us understand it. Yeah, absolutely.

So digital citizenship, I would define it as being at the crossroads between digital literacy, so the ability to read the digital world that I'm a part of, and emotional intelligence, which is something I care a lot about and a lot of us talk a lot about. There's a guy named John Palfrey who wrote a great book called Born Digital, and he defines this idea of digital citizenship as the skill of navigating, evaluating, and creating information using digital technology.

Growing Leaders (14:16.098)
So, emotional intelligence covers five things, self-awareness, managing yourself, being aware of others, making responsible choices, and of course, communication. But when you combine these, becoming a digital citizen means that students can understand the digital world with effectiveness and actively choose to make better decisions in online spaces. So, would you say that at the end of the day, digital citizenship simply is about

critical thinking in the digital age? Yeah, I think so. I think that's the best way to describe it, right? Over time, I actually came up with this model to kind of talk about the four roles that we all play in the digital world. I call it the digital citizenship matrix. I feel like that is amazing and it probably has a pretty picture. It does have a pretty picture. It's in the e-book. People can see it. It sounds really fancy, but it's really just a two by two matrix. So it's pretty simple.

But in those four boxes, in that two by two matrix, it unlocks kind of the four roles that we're playing. The kind of things on the side are passive versus active, right? We play both passive and active roles online. The other one is public and private. We play both very public, like other people can see what we're doing, roles, but we also play private roles, right? Never before have kids been able to do so much without anybody knowing what they're up to. And that's key idea here too.

So the four key roles we play in those boxes in that two by two matrix are this. Consuming, creating, reacting, and promoting. Each of these is a different role we play as we navigate these online spaces. And I think knowing how to do each of these thoughtfully makes all the difference, especially for young people. So I'm intrigued, and I'm sure our listeners are too. So let's start with the first role. Consuming. We all spend so much time scrolling, watching, and reading online.

So what makes someone a responsible consumer of digital content? Yeah, that is the question. It's a great question. Consuming is a private act these days, right? But it is still an active choice. We actively click on that thing we're going to maybe watch. So it's everything from watching videos, reading articles, endlessly scrolling through memes, which I'm sure you've never done before. Certainly I have not. The key, I think, to responsible consumption.

Growing Leaders (16:36.128)
is just to simply ask yourself, is this helping me grow into the person I want to be or am I just wasting my time? It's that classic, you've probably heard of it, the garbage in, garbage out principle, right? Right. Geigo, it's often called, whatever I consume eventually comes out of me as well. What you choose to consume influences how you think, how you feel, and I think often how we act as well. I've never heard it called Geigo, but I am going to refer to it like You'll never forget it.

I don't think that this is going to be my DMI, but I just wanted you to know that hit me. could be. It could be. Maybe you guys should be listening, getting ready for the DMI. So all of those 2 a.m. TikTok rabbit holes might not be the healthiest choice for us. Yes. And that's something that we know instinctively, right? But it doesn't change the fact that we all find ourselves doing that because these devices are created to help us consume. So I'm not saying don't enjoy TikTok from time to time, but it's about being mindful of what we're consuming.

So many of us make decisions and we realize I actively pushed that button, but I don't remember thinking about pushing that button, right? And if what all you're doing is watching this mindless content or even finding yourself in toxic spaces, I think it can take a toll on you. So students should really just balance it out by consuming things that make them think, that make them inspired, bring them joy, challenge them to grow, all those kinds of things. So it's not about saying no to everything on TikTok.

It's about balancing it out and making sure as in my role as consumer, I'm consuming great things that are really helping me too. That makes a lot of sense. So up next, let's talk about creating content. Yes. So creating is also an active thing that we do on the internet, but this is more of our public role that we play. Every time we post, we're adding to a global conversation. There are now trillions and trillions of posts and pictures and videos and things that we've added, whether it's a simple post in a Reddit thread,

Maybe it's a trendy TikTok video that we hopped on and we put out there. Or maybe it's just a funny meme we made of our dog at home, right? But whatever it is, it's, I think, crucial that what we create reflects who we are. So we've got to ask ourselves, is this post that I'm about to put out there consistent with my values, who I am, and my integrity, my identity? I think it's easy for us to get caught up in trends or share things that might not represent who we really are.

Growing Leaders (18:57.368)
But being a thoughtful creator is about making sure what we put out there aligns with the person we want to be. I if you think back to what happened with Logan Lane, who started the Luddite Club, this was her, right? She was hopping on all these trends. She was doing things and saying things that she thought other people wanted her to say. And it left her feeling miserable because she wasn't doing things that were in line with who she was. That's so powerful and a necessary shift that I think all of us should start to think about. You know, we post, a lot of us post things for fun, but rarely do we think.

Does this represent the real me? I think our listeners should be paused with us for a moment on that. Is this, you had said, you know, what we create reflects who we are and we just need to be more thoughtful about that. So we've covered consuming and creating. Next up is reacting.

So reacting is what happens when you engage with other people's content. just simply it's our likes, our comments, even our shares. And even though it's both passive and private, it has a big impact. For example, on a platform like Reddit, upvotes, which is kind of like the like button for Reddit, pushes content literally up to the top of the page, making it more visible. And the same thing happens on all the other social media platforms as well.

when you like or comment on something, you're effectively elevating that content so other people are more likely to see it. So the key question here is pretty similar. Am I reacting to content that is positive and meaningful or am I encouraging negativity or ideas that are unhelpful? We think those things are small, but they're really not. A like or a thumbs up could be pushing harmful stuff up in the algorithm. And we have a responsibility to be aware of that. Absolutely.

Exactly, even though small interactions have power, which is why it's important to react thoughtfully. And that brings us to this last role that we are talking about of the four roles, which is promoting. So this is not where we just like and comment on something. This is when we actually retweet or share something, right? So we're actually, we're actively aligning ourselves, our personal brand with that content. And I know most kids don't think of it that way, but that's exactly what's happening.

Growing Leaders (21:05.55)
It's no longer just a like. You're saying, I endorse this as who I am. It might just be a simple click of that repost or reshare button, but it is actually so much more. We definitely need to more aware of what we are promoting, even if it's unintentional. The great reminder for me is when a post comes back up that's like five or ten years ago, I posted. And I was like, who was that? Who could possibly have written Who did that? That is not Gina. I don't know who did that.

Right? Yeah. We just need to be more mindful of that and probably check what we've been promoting. Yeah. We've all done things online that we're not proud of. I know I certainly have, and our students definitely have. I think many of the kids we're leading today, if five years from now, if they could see what they just posted, they would probably feel the same way. But that's why it's so important for us to challenge them to stop and think, does this thing that I'm doing really align with my values? This is how I want to be remembered. Social media moves fast.

which is why taking that extra moment to reflect, to just pause for even a half second can make a massive difference in the kind of online presence you end up creating. All right. So we've covered the four roles of digital citizenship, but I know there's more to this story. There's skills that young people need to really thrive in these roles. Can you share? Yeah, absolutely. So in my e-book, I talk about three key skills that can help students navigate these roles responsibly.

These three are this. First up is identity formation. I think before students can engage meaningfully online, they have to know who they are. Otherwise, it's easy to get swept up in all the trends or fall victim to the pressures of social media. If they have a strong sense of self that they can stand firm in this digital world, that will help them from being kind of swept away and all of sudden finding themselves.

looking like somebody didn't mean to do or mean to become. So this idea of identity, who am I? And having it before I get to those digital spaces is so important. So like knowing their personal brand, but on a deeper level. Yeah, I think that's it. Most kids know this term personal brand. But when you get even deeper, you can start to ask, okay, well, what are the things that actually line your personal brand? to me, it's about being grounded in things like your values.

Growing Leaders (23:25.046)
your passions, your strengths, as well as your personality, right? Without these foundations, it's much, much harder to navigate this constant bombardment of content and opinions and ideas and trends and all of this coming online towards them. If they get that foundation right first, they're going to be far more ready for that experience. So good. So good. So what's skill number two? Okay, so skill number two is probably the one that everybody would most see thinking. In fact, you referenced this earlier, Gina, which it is critical thinking.

So this is crucial for everything from spotting fake news to avoiding online scams, whatever it is. It's about questioning what you see and just asking yourself some really important questions like who created this message? What's the motive behind it, right? The internet is full of information, but not all of it is trustworthy. And I critical thinking helps young people especially separate the good.

from the bad. fact, there's been a lot of research that shows young people who are online every single day struggle to identify ads when they see them. So they just think ads are news, right? And those kinds of things, the ability to recognize and see what's really going on somewhere is really important. What's the third skill that we need to be aware of? Yeah, the third skill is also incredibly crucial. It is impulse control.

Now, we need impulse control in all of our interactions, right? But especially in the digital world, the Internet moves fast. And it's easy, I think, to react without thinking, to click on something without even thinking, to share something without even thinking. Whether it's firing off that short tweet or accepting the first result from a Google search without thinking, right? We often just react before we reflect. And impulse control can help students pause, take a breath, like I mentioned earlier.

and then make a more thoughtful decision. Friend, you have made basically like a toolkit. These three skills make that for all of us. We're talking about students, but it's good for all of us to navigate the digital world. And when you combine them with the four roles of consuming, creating, reacting, and promoting, we've got a full roadmap for digital citizenship. Yeah. But that's certainly what I was going for. To me, it's all about being intentional in how we engage online.

Growing Leaders (25:40.598)
That's the biggest thing I see with young people is just very little intentionality. The digital world can be overwhelming, but I think with these three skills and reflecting on those four roles, right, we can help students navigate this digital world in a way that's thoughtful and that's more aligned with the values, the person they say they want to be. So whether they're scrolling, posting, sharing, I think we just need to challenge them to take a moment and to think about the impact that they're having, not only on themselves, but also on their wider

digital network, digital community. A little mindfulness goes a long way to make the internet a better place. And I think we would all agree that we need the internet to be a better place. So. A to the men. Seriously. I feel like I've learned so much. And this is only episode one. Yeah. But you know what that means. You've learned a lot, Gina. I have.

It's been way too long. always learn a lot from you though. I don't know why. I don't know how that's possible. But we have gone through a lot of information today. for you listeners, it might have only been a few weeks, but it feels like a lifetime for me and Gina. We have TMI. DMI. It's time for DMI. It's time for DMI.

Growing Leaders (26:59.598)
Andrew, you are so full of wisdom, genuinely. Like, I mess with you, I joke around, but like, I just value your leadership and your wisdom, and I'm so grateful I had this time to share with you and our listeners. So, as a final sendoff, what was the one thing that you want our listeners to take away? Yeah, I think I'm always thinking about where do you start, right? So, if this idea of digital citizenship or even some of the skills of being a healthy digital citizen is not something you've ever thought of, and you're wondering, where do I begin?

Where to begin is with skill number one, identity formation. So I mentioned that list, values, passions, strengths, personality. I think we need to make time, even in schools, and I know we can have a lot of questions around this, but I think we need to make time for students to be able to learn some of these things about themselves. Far too many kids are making it to adulthood and they don't have any idea what their strengths are, what their passions are, what their values are, all of those things. I think if we make time and ask, who is the person you want to be?

Yeah. Right. How do you want to be known? How do you want to be recognized? Then when we make space for that to happen in school, we're actually better equipping them for some of the digital spaces that they're in, no matter where they are throughout their day. that's where it begins for me. All the stuff I talked about, I feel like is important. But if you don't have that, all the other stuff kind of ends up not mattering as much. So. That's great. That's great. And identity formation is just an important period with the T. For me,

I think my DMI is kind of what I noted earlier, which is what you said about what we create reflects who we are and the charge for us to be thoughtful. And I think a behavior that you alluded to was just pausing and taking that time to reflect before we react. And if we as parents, we as leaders, we as educators can encourage young people to have conversations with us before they take a step, it'll translate into pauses.

and reflection before they react in the digital space. so that's just, that was so good. Good. Good. No, that was really well said too. I like the way you applied that. Ooh, I'm This has been a good first episode. I like it. Well, hey, there's one more thing that we really don't want to forget, Andrew. And we've mentioned it a few times, but you wrote an e-book on this and we want to make sure all of our listeners get access to it. Yeah, that would be great. So if you listen to this episode and you're like, this is good, I want more.

Growing Leaders (29:21.294)
Have we got an item for you. This e-book I wrote came out last year. It's called The AI Dilemma, How Schools Can Build Digital Citizens in the Age of Intelligence. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it? It was a good title. So you can get access for free to this e-book. Simply click the link in the show notes and you'll get access to it. It's not crazy long, but it is going to give you really practical ideas about how to apply some of these ideas in your school. That's great.

Thanks, Andrew. Well, thank you everyone for joining us today on this episode of the School on a Mission podcast. Now, before you hit the skip button onto your next podcast, we've got a little challenge for you. So grab a pen, a notebook, a sticky note, or even the back of your hand and write down one action you're going to take this week. Maybe it's something you're going to do, something you are going to investigate, or something to read more about. Maybe it's a person you want to meet with.

Now DM us with your action step. We can't wait to see what awesome things you're up to. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold, and keep leading your school on a mission. The School on a Mission podcast is produced by Growing Leaders, powered by Maxwell Leadership Foundation. You can find out more about Going Leaders at growingleaders.com.