Speaker 1: 0:15

Welcome back everyone. My name is Gina Watts, and co-hosting with me today is the wonderful Star Wars fan.

Speaker 2: 0:25

I was wondering, like she's about to say something, what does she say?

Speaker 1: 0:28

Andrew.

Speaker 2: 0:29

McPeak so good to be with you, gina, and I do like Star Wars, you do.

Speaker 1: 0:33

If you believe that school should be more than just essays and GPAs, if you believe that EQs are as important as IQs, if you expect amazing things from the next generation, then, friends, you are in the right place, because we believe that too, and today. If you believe that failing is just the first step towards success, then you are definitely going to love this episode.

Speaker 2: 0:56

That you are. Yeah, we are both believers in failure, and I'm sure many of our listeners are too, but if you're not, we might convince you by the end. But before we get there, we've got to do our question of the week, so this is a fun one. What is the craziest thing you've ever done on a dare from?

Speaker 1: 1:15

someone else oh this question. You know, I was thinking about it and honestly, I can't even make it up. I am a person that growing up playing truth or dare I always was like. I'll tell the truth.

Speaker 2: 1:28

I'll tell the truth You're an open book.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Yeah, I just never really did the dares, like I don't know. I am an open book, but I also don't know if maybe the people I was with I just didn't trust on what kind of dare they were going to give me, that's very true Is the dare too dangerous, Because when I was growing up, my friends always called me the mom. You were the ones that was like I don't know if we should do this. Yeah, I was like taking care of people, you know, always like that.

Speaker 2: 1:56

And you're still playing that role today. I am.

Speaker 1: 1:59

I just can't help it, but I'm sure I am confident that you have a wonderful story to tell us.

Speaker 2: 2:10

I have definitely done some dares. That would be a difference between you and I in this one. But yeah, I remember birthday parties where we were like, okay, run down this hallway and you got to jump over this couch. Or I had a crazy group of friends run down this hallway and you got to jump over this couch. Or I had a crazy group of friends or one friend's birthday party. He had a pool and the back porch had an awning that went kind of right up next to the pool, and so we were like, okay, we're going to go up to the second floor, go out a window, jump off the awning into the pool. And of course we all did it and it was awesome. But probably like the craziest thing I ever did on a dare was go cliff jumping.

Speaker 1: 2:46

Cliff jumping, yeah Into what A lake. Okay, yep, I wanted to make sure that our listeners knew that there was something other than the hard earth.

Speaker 2: 2:56

I grew up in Nashville. We have several lakes in Nashville Percy Priest is one of those and there is a spot, if you know where to go kind of off the beaten path, where you can jump and it's like 25, 30 feet somewhere in there. Okay, it's long enough that you jump, thinking you're going to hit the water, and you have a moment in the air to think I'm still falling, and then you hit the water. That was the most memorable part of that experience. It's like I jump, I'm falling, I'm still falling and then I hit the water. So you should try it sometime.

Speaker 1: 3:28

No.

Speaker 2: 3:29

I dare you to do that.

Speaker 1: 3:31

No, I can't.

Speaker 2: 3:32

I can't do it Now the look on your face is like just shut it down. We're not doing it.

Speaker 1: 3:36

Can't do it, Can't do it. I love these stories though. Moving from funny dares to something like more serious is really how we handle failure. Embracing failure and learning to fail forward is critical, especially in education.

Speaker 2: 3:54

Yes.

Speaker 1: 3:54

It's something we see as essential for growth and resilience. I just wonder how much space we make for it.

Speaker 2: 4:01

Yeah, not only for us, but also for our students, right? So today we're diving into the concept of what we call failing forward. You might've heard that in other places, but it's really about how schools can create an environment where students and teachers feel free to take risks, to innovate and to not be afraid of failing, because we recognize failure can be a good thing.

Speaker 1: 4:26

And it's such a hard thing to talk about. I think at times, you know, I've had to even make sure that I'm aware of how I talk about it to people, because I tend to be when I'm thinking about ideas, I'm like a risk taker and I'm excited about change, but that's not how everybody feels about it. You know, failing is hard.

Speaker 1: 4:43

It's a hard thing to talk about. You know. Failing is hard. It's a hard thing to talk about, you know. We have all failed, but most of the time just kind of like we duck our heads and pretend it never happened and hoping like did anybody just see me trip?

Speaker 2: 4:53

Yeah, in fact, that's the very first thing we do after we trip is we get up and then we look around. Yeah Right, I want to make sure nobody saw me.

Speaker 1: 5:01

Or we get up and dance, because I tend to fall in public, I don't know if we get up and dance, okay, gina.

Speaker 2: 5:07

Gina gets up and dances.

Speaker 1: 5:11

I mean, at least I'll entertain people while I fall.

Speaker 2: 5:17

Oh, there's so many good things we have left to do together, Gina, Really. But when we're talking about failure, it's the belief that the idea here is that failure isn't a setback. Instead failure is an opportunity, right, it's an opportunity for growth. It's seeing the red marks left on my test right as stepping stones to success, Like I just learned how to not do that you know, and now I'm going to be better next time.

Speaker 1: 5:42

Exactly. It's like the saying goes fall seven times, stand up eight. By embracing this mindset, we can foster a culture of resilience and continuous improvement in our schools.

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yeah, and this isn't a new idea either. It's not like you and I are coming up with this on this podcast. Historically, some of the greatest advancements in history came after repeated failures. Think of Thomas Edison right? He famously said he had figured out a thousand ways not to make a light bulb which is hilarious.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Just one thousand.

Speaker 2: 6:11

Yeah, and so he considered all of those learning experiences right. So if we're looking at our kids, who are going to be creatives, they're going to be entrepreneurs, they're going to come up with new ideas in the same vein as Thomas Edison they're going to have to fail.

Speaker 1: 6:27

Absolutely. You know, in education the fail forward approach is all about preparing students for an unpredictable future. Our friend, and probably he's growing to be yours, john Maxwell, has popularized this concept in his book Failing Forward. John emphasizes viewing failure as a growth opportunity. He's for real. He's like the Yoda of embracing failure Wise and endlessly quotable.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Maxwell Yoda. I like that. So, speaking of practical wisdom, let's talk about how we can implement some of these fail forward strategies. In all that we do, certainly, but especially in the classroom. So I know step one Gina, you're going to kind of walk us through this has to be about creating safe environments for risk taking.

Speaker 1: 7:14

For sure. So redefining failure is key. If students see it as a learning experience rather than a disaster, they're more likely to take risks and innovate Rather than a disaster. They're more likely to take risks and innovate.

Speaker 2: 7:31

To quote Yoda. I mean John. He says sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. Actually, hang on, wait, I'm calling hype button on that. You got to say that John quote again Sometimes you win and sometimes you learn.

Speaker 1: 7:41

I love that and if you really like it, he actually wrote a song For real. It's on any of your streaming services and it's just called Sometimes you Win, sometimes you Learn.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Now he's not actually singing on the song. He's not actually singing, but he wrote it, which we should be thankful for. He's not the world's greatest singer.

Speaker 1: 7:57

No, or dancer, but it's fine.

Speaker 2: 8:00

We love him still, but he found somebody who's great at singing.

Speaker 1: 8:02

Yes, and he wrote a great song and he wrote a great song but really, you know, life is about failing forward and it's about understanding that you learn in the process. It's rare that we get things right the first time.

Speaker 1: 8:14

Yeah, and we need to provide space for our students to know it's okay to fail. Think of it like a science experiment. Sometimes it blows up, but you always learn something that's safe for young people to fail. Also, think about not just like a physical space, but like how do you respond to failure If you have anxiety about it, if you are like responding with, you know, nervousness or tension. Even if you don't say the words, it comes off to the student and they don't feel safe in turn to be able to experiment or to explore and learn. So we're going to talk about some practical steps that educators can take.

Speaker 2: 8:58

Awesome. So let's get to the nitty gritty. You got a few ideas for us. Yeah, a lot of them are super practical. So what's first?

Speaker 1: 9:06

So, first, educators can redefine failure in the classroom. Start by openly discussing the value of mistakes and how they lead into learning. You know, use language that frames errors as a part of the learning process. For example, instead of saying you failed, say well, what can we learn from this, and honestly, I think most teachers, most educators, aren't going to say like, oh, you failed, unless you want to be a little sarcastic for a moment.

Speaker 2: 9:31

Because you always have this, but we're never sarcastic here, ever ever.

Speaker 1: 9:35

But. But the reality is is like I just mentioned, the way that you even say well, what can we learn from this If your posture isn't genuine, kids sniff. I always tell people, kids sniff out a phony in a minute.

Speaker 2: 9:48

Today more than ever, yeah, so they need to know that.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Oh, I can learn from this and that you're not just saying what you think you should say. Yeah, so you have to actually believe it yourself.

Speaker 2: 9:58

It's so good, it's so good. Shifting our language and really, ultimately, our expectations behind our language, can totally change the atmosphere of that classroom. So, all right, what's the next one?

Speaker 1: 10:09

Encourage experimentation, you know. Create assignments that allow for creative problem solving where the process is valued as much as the final product. You know, let students know it's okay to try new approaches and that their effort is appreciated even if their result isn't perfect. Now, if you think about, you know I've shared at different points about my background in career development points about my background and career development Employers. When I talk to employers, one of the number one things that they continuously are frustrated with I mean this is probably for like the last 10 to 15 years is the lack of resilience and problem solving skills that these kids have made it all the way through their entire educational career, they arrived for their first job and they don't know how to keep going at a problem until they solve it.

Speaker 1: 10:54

Yep and honestly, we can help with that as educators. We can help by creating these safe spaces and encouraging experimentation in the room so that the kids are building their skills, they're honing their skills.

Speaker 2: 11:07

And I think that's exactly the reason why right is because when you think about what are kids going to need to know to be successful, in their future. You have to recognize that problem solving is probably more important than at any point in history up to this point, yeah. Because it's not going to be about what we know. It's going to be about how we can think critically about what we know. So what about the next one? You've given us two really good ones. Take us to number three.

Speaker 1: 11:32

So I mentioned resilience, and actually that's one of them is teaching resilience, you know, by emphasizing that abilities can be developed through effort and practice. When I think about this one right now, you know I'm thinking about my five-year-old who's learning how to tie his shoes. So my husband and I decided to move from, like you know, the strap shoes or the slip-ons, to tying shoes, and I was like what did we do?

Speaker 2: 11:59

You've given yourself a whole other thing you have to deal with.

Speaker 1: 12:02

But honestly, it's every day. He practices it at the same time every day. He has to do it every morning and I even said to my husband I said, you know, we should get him a pair of slip-ons, just like you know shoes that he can just throw on when we're quick. He's like no, because then he's going to only want to wear those. And I'm like, but we can control that. And he's like Gina, and then, sure enough, he overheard us talking about it and he was like yeah, mommy, I do want some slip-ons because I like those, like he, mm-mm.

Speaker 1: 12:33

So my point is is that from a five-year-old teaching them how to tie their shoes and not getting frustrated when you need to get out the door, but making enough time to keep doing it that teaches resilience just as much as having space for experimentation in the classroom in a senior class. Those are spaces where we can provide constructive feedback that focuses on the process and effort rather than just the outcome. And along the way we need to praise the students for their hard work and strategies, and not just for their grades.

Speaker 2: 13:07

I love it. Well, also, what I love so much about your example with your son is you had to practice resilience in order for him to learn resilience because you had to keep going and letting him fight and struggle through this thing. Yeah, which is what the next one is. I think it is Modeling the way.

Speaker 1: 13:25

Modeling. You know, honestly speaking of my son, I have to give a shout out to my husband because he's the one that's teaching him how to diet. You also need to know when it's not your skill.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Okay, modeling failure.

Speaker 1: 13:38

By sharing your own experiences with setbacks, you know there's an appropriate amount of transparency that we should have with students or, as administrators, with our staff. Sharing with people that you too have failed is really important strategy. So when teachers and school leaders talk about their failures and what they learn from them, it shows the students that failure is a natural part of the learning journey. This transparency can be very powerful, especially in a time where we think we see and know people's stories because of social media and we see the glitz, we see the glamour and I'm not talking about just famous people, I'm talking about us. We post what we want people to know. The problem with that is people don't know everything that's happened behind the scenes or over the years that allowed you to get to that moment, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 14:38

And there is a amount of transparency that's appropriate. Yep, yeah, that's true, you gotta gauge it.

Speaker 2: 14:46

Don't tell them everything. You don't need to know all the business. But you are exactly right, If a student never sees a teacher walk through that process and I've actually visited schools and been in classrooms before when I've actually seen a teacher go oh, Ms Smith just made a mistake. Somebody tell me what mistake did I just make? On the board and it's such a powerful because she's doing two things at once when she does that.

Speaker 2: 15:09

One, giving them a chance to think critically, but two, modeling. It's okay to make a mistake, to go hit yourself on the head like can't believe I did that and then move on.

Speaker 1: 15:22

I love that modeling thing To what you just said, though, too, even the example you gave. She also didn't call herself names or treat herself with disrespect, she just said oh, I made a mistake. Can somebody tell me what it was? So she was ready to receive feedback. Oh, we could stop right there and do a whole lesson on that quick example off the top of your head. That was good. That was good, but yeah, it's about the way. It's about the way that we model the failure.

Speaker 2: 15:49

Yeah, all right, take us to the next one.

Speaker 1: 15:51

All right. So this crucial professional development for teachers on adopting a fail forward mindset is a great start. This can include training on innovative teaching methods and how to handle setbacks. Productively Empowered teachers will create a ripple effect in their classroom. Some of you might be like Gina there is not a professional development training called fail forward, but there are a lot of people and a lot of resources that you can access that can help you create strategies or have conversations about failure.

Speaker 1: 16:23

And it might seem like it's way too simple to put financial investment into. But, friends, I'm telling you, it's a culture shifting thing, it's a mindset shifting thing. So you have to resource that in order for it to be sticky.

Speaker 2: 16:37

Absolutely so. I mean, a great place to start is maybe there's somebody that you want to talk to about failure.

Speaker 1: 16:43

Send them this podcast.

Speaker 2: 16:45

Go. Hey, listen to this, I want to talk about it later. Another way we've already mentioned the John Maxwell book Failing Forward. Pick up a copy of that and start some conversations. It can be really easy to do professional development in that way. Okay, take us on to one more.

Speaker 1: 17:00

Collaborative learning. I think it's something that has been, you know, like a catchy or trendy phrase for a number of years. But encouraging it and executing it is another thing. So group projects and problem-solving activities that allow students to learn from each other's mistakes and successes, it gives space for there to be a community effort. You know, when students work together, they see failure as a shared learning experience, not a blaming experience or a you know like. Well so, and so, like everybody listening, did you like group projects, yes or no?

Speaker 2: 17:35

I believe everybody says no right, no Universal answer.

Speaker 1: 17:40

And if you were an overachiever, you probably were like I will do everything yeah and I will do everything. So you just like super serve because you want to make sure the grade's a good grade and a good outcome right.

Speaker 1: 17:51

The solution to the group project problem is to just turn it back into a solo project and so this collaborative learning environment and having standards from the beginning so I think, like having structure standards, expectation, so that there's group norms, there's a good work done together to get them ready to do it but there's a true collaborative experience can be a game changer. Love it.

Speaker 2: 18:13

Love it, love it, and what I love so much about that, too, is that it's going to create opportunities not only for students to learn to call one another out on mistakes in a really healthy, solid communication way. But also learn to receive feedback from other people.

Speaker 1: 18:29

Say it.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Somebody goes hey, I don't think you did that part right to go oh my gosh, you're so right. Thank you for sharing that with me. Like I know I'm saying that and it sounds so simple, but like that's a skill.

Speaker 1: 18:40

No, because I was sitting here thinking like that's another thing employers complain about right now and are frustrated with is that people I guess they call it, like you know being too sensitive? I don't think it's too sensitive. I think that they were never trained or don't have the skill set to receive feedback.

Speaker 2: 18:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:57

And that receiving feedback, even if it's hard critique, it doesn't mean that you are less than Correct or that or that everything you're doing is wrong At all.

Speaker 2: 19:07

Yeah, at all yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:09

At all.

Speaker 2: 19:09

It all points back to that resilience that resilience factor, so good, okay, well, you got one more for us, and even if you got all that other stuff, correct? That's only really going to help you in the school building right. And so your last one is about getting beyond the school building.

Speaker 1: 19:24

Community engagement is vital. You know, organizing events and meetings to discuss school initiatives and gather feedback is really important. It's important for parents and the community to be involved. They can support the fail forward approach at home, making the educational experience more cohesive. And also it's a shared language thing. In various episodes of our podcast I'm sure we'll talk about how important it is to have shared language, how important it is to not only have the administrator have a language and share that with the teachers, but the teachers to have that experience and share it with the students and students to share it with their parents. And if everybody imagine if everybody has that shared language and that shared understanding of even just one concept like failing forward, that creates community transformation. It absolutely does. It changes how everybody can function in supporting one another, Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 20:15

And I think, in the same way that this kind of fail-forward approach might be foreign to a lot of teachers, it's definitely going to be foreign to a lot of parents. It's one of the biggest challenges in the parenting world right now is parents who see their kids struggling and think the solution is for my kid to not struggle anymore.

Speaker 2: 20:34

And therefore I should just step in and solve it Right, whether I do that homework project or you know, I've talked to teachers who go I get I the kids wheel their science projects in the door and I'm like parent did that Parent?

Speaker 1: 20:48

did that.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Parent did that. It's so very obvious because they're a third grader. Of course they can't build their own volcano or submarine or whatever it is, and I think a lot of parents think that that's the right approach. So if the school in engaging those parents, and the other community members can make that clear it makes a massive difference and it has long-term benefits.

Speaker 1: 21:08

It does. You know, embracing a fail-forward approach enhances student engagement and improves teacher satisfaction. Believe it or not, students who feel safe taking risks are more engaged and more motivated. It leads to them having better academic performance. And teachers who are in supportive environments. They innovate more, they know they have permission to fail, and it reduces their burnout and improves retention.

Speaker 2: 21:31

Plus, it seems like schools that embrace failure are better able to adapt when changes come along right.

Speaker 1: 21:39

Exactly, schools that view failure as part of the process are more innovative and, honestly, they're more resilient, they're better equipped to handle changing demands, foster a culture of continuous improvement, like, I wonder you know that would be a great research is to see what was the risk taking or problem solving quotient or failing forward quotient of schools before COVID, before the pandemic, and looking at the ones that, how they behaved and what they did, and the results that they saw, yeah. Versus ones that didn't really have that permission to take risks or that problem-solving community environment.

Speaker 2: 22:20

Yeah, that would just. Yeah, that would be. I think a lot of schools probably lost the appetite for risk in the wake of COVID, for sure. So just to sum it all up here in a nutshell, it seems like embracing failure, or at least recognizing it's a part of education, leads to a brighter future for literally everyone involved, right? So by redefining failure, encouraging risk-taking, fostering growth mindsets, building supportive school cultures, we literally can turn setbacks into valuable learning experiences for students.

Speaker 1: 22:50

I agree. I agree, andrew, and you know we can continue to journey toward innovation and excellence in education, but let's celebrate the power of failure. You know, I would love even if there were like weeks dedicated to celebrating the failures that we took you know, together we can create a culture of resilience, creativity and continuous improvement. So here's to failing forward along the way.

Speaker 2: 23:15

Absolutely Cheers to that. This is so solid, so practical, but it did just remind me of a story, really, actually, it's some research that we came across a couple years ago, myself and Tim, our founder, about how we can help students handle their failure better. So some researchers and I'll just tell this really quick researchers from Stanford, yale, columbia and other places it was a whole research team got together. I think it was back in 2014, so a while back, but the stuff they learned is just as valuable today as it was back then gathered high school students and the goal of the study was to find out what kind of feedback is most helpful when students have underperformed on an assignment.

Speaker 2: 24:05

So, that's a fancy way of saying they failed right, they didn't get 100% and what they were trying to figure out is what could you say to help a student, kind of bounce back from that negative experience that they had or the failure that they experienced.

Speaker 2: 24:19

So they had middle school, high school teachers assign an essay writing assignment to their students. So the students turned the assignment in the assignments. The essays were then graded so they marked them up crazy with red lines and the experiment was actually where they would change what they wrote at the top of the paper. So I don't know if you remember, when you get an assignment back, your teacher says you know?

Speaker 2: 24:43

it was a really good idea, but you need to work on your spelling or whatever. So they started. They literally experimented with dozens of phrases that they hypothesized this might help, and what they did is they told the students who got this assignment back it is totally up to you, completely voluntary, but if you would like to, you can edit your paper based on the feedback you got and turn it back in.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Okay.

Speaker 2: 25:06

So completely voluntary, and they wanted to see could we find a phrase or phrases that would make students more on their own decide? To voluntarily make this change on their own, decide to voluntarily, you know, make this change. So, to their surprise, the researchers discovered that there was one particular phrase that was used this type of teacher feedback that improved student effort and performance so much that they actually, in the study, used the word magical to describe it, which, as you might imagine, is not a word you commonly find in scientific study reports, but they literally use the word magical.

Speaker 2: 25:43

Students who received this feedback, this phrase on their paper, chose to revise their papers far more often than students who did not. In fact, in the study, they found a massive difference, not only in the type of student, but also in the racial divide, which is crazy. They found that about, if they use this phrase, about 40% more white students change their paper voluntarily, but among black students it was 320%.

Speaker 1: 26:13

Wow.

Speaker 2: 26:13

This one phrase.

Speaker 1: 26:15

Wow.

Speaker 2: 26:15

So what was the phrase?

Speaker 1: 26:16

Everybody's probably wondering.

Speaker 2: 26:19

It is this. I'm giving you these comments because I have very high expectations and I know that you can reach them. That's it, I'm giving you these comments because I have very high expectations and I know that you can reach them. According to the research, students who received this sentence not only performed better immediately afterwards, but they kept following them for a year and those students performed better on future assignments too Wow.

Speaker 2: 26:43

Isn't that crazy. That's great, and it's such a reminder to me of what we've been talking about all along right, A student fails and the difference between them bouncing back with success and them not bouncing back at all is how we communicate the spirit that we're bringing to our feedback to students.

Speaker 1: 27:00

It's truly just being believed in.

Speaker 2: 27:02

Yes, that's exactly what it is.

Speaker 1: 27:03

Because when I hear that phrase, I'm like, oh, you believe in me.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:06

I hear that first. Then I hear oh, I need to do some more work.

Speaker 2: 27:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:10

But I hear you believe in me first.

Speaker 2: 27:12

That's the amazing part about high expectations, isn't it? High expectations communicate. I believe you, but I'm also not going to let you skate by Yep yep. And I think a lot of times we communicate belief. I call it cotton candy leadership sometimes. Like it tastes really good at first and then you feel sick to your stomach later. It's. I believe in you. You're amazing, but we don't often hold kids to high expectations. And I think that's the recipe with kids who are experiencing failure is hey, you've got this.

Speaker 2: 27:42

But just because I believe you've got this doesn't mean I'm going to let you skate on this. We need to try again. That's good.

Speaker 1: 27:48

So it's not failure, but it's how we lead through the failure that really will make all the difference.

Speaker 2: 27:54

Absolutely, I'd say. Today's whole conversation in sum is keep failing forward and stay curious everyone. Gina, you've taught us a lot today, so much in fact. In fact, I've got TMI right now. I've got too much information.

Speaker 1: 28:08

So I think it's time for a DMI. Andrew, do you want to kick us off with our Don't Miss it today?

Speaker 2: 28:20

Yeah, Well, what I was thinking about honestly was just the advice you gave us, and then the mission of this podcast.

Speaker 1: 28:28

We call it.

Speaker 2: 28:29

School on a Mission right.

Speaker 2: 28:30

And what we're trying to accomplish. And to me, the greatest connection there was about what you said about encouraging experimentation. There was about what you said about encouraging experimentation. If we're looking at schools as the place where students, where communities even, are going to experience amazing change right, it's more than just reading, writing and arithmetic Then we're going to have to be the kinds of leaders who are not afraid of experiments, who, when that really wild, innovative teacher in your building right now and you know exactly who I'm talking about you're thinking of them right now when they come to you and go hey, I just had this cool idea on the way to work today that you go, you know what? Okay, we're going to try it. Your other 12 ideas didn't work, but we're going to try the 13th one.

Speaker 2: 29:19

Or when a group of students comes to you and has a really big idea and you're thinking these 15-year-olds have no idea how hard what they just said is actually going to be, that we don't let those things become excuses, and that we're encouraging, inside of our building, experimentation, because we know that the difference between us getting to where we want to go and us staying stagnant where we are is having a building full of people who are not afraid of failure, who are excited about trying new things, who are pushing boundaries and coming up with ideas. That's the kind of leadership we need right now. So I love that idea of allowing for experimentation.

Speaker 1: 29:55

That's good. What about you? That's good. You know the research that you noted. You know specifically the comment which was I'm giving you these comments because I have very high expectations and I know that you can reach them. I think it's an example that points back to one of the first few things I said about. It's not just the physical environment, it's not just the things we say, it's also the how we say it.

Speaker 1: 30:19

And it's how we monitor and manage ourselves in the environment. If you're somebody who is very driven, you're a striver. I'm a former striver, or I'm recovering, recovering striver, or I'm currently in process of a striver. But you know, if you're that person one, I see you and I recognize you as I look in the mirror that energy still comes off, even when you try your hardest not to, and so we have to do our own. You know development as resilient leaders who aren't afraid of failure, in order to also create space for young people to feel safe when it comes to that. And so I think having like that, that comment is going to stick with me for a while. I mean, I've heard Tim share it before, but it is. It's going to stick with me for a while because I want to make sure that the thing that I'm saying, the expectation that I hold, is more than just the words and it's actually like a lived truth and a philosophy that I'm creating safe space for people to fail.

Speaker 2: 31:20

It's good. So good, man, this has been a fun episode.

Speaker 1: 31:24

It's been good I might listen to it.

Speaker 2: 31:25

Yeah, I said it. Now I'm going to listen to it. This is going to be great. Well, thank you so much, gina, for all the wisdom that you've shared with us. Of course, we want to thank everybody listening to this episode of School on a Mission.

Speaker 2: 31:38

This podcast is only fun to make because we believe so much in you guys and what you're doing. So, before you hit skip onto your next podcast, we want to challenge you. Grab a pen, notebook, sticky note, smartphone, maybe even the back of your hand. Whatever you've got, we want you to write down one action you are going to take this week. Maybe it's something you're going to do, something you're going to investigate further, something you're going to go read about, maybe a person you want to meet with in your school building or your community. Whatever it is, write it down. Got it Perfect? Now we want you to shoot us a DM on social media and we want you to tell us what action are you taking. We'd love to help hold you accountable. We want you to tell us what action are you taking. We'd love to help hold you accountable. We can't wait to see all the amazing things that you're up to, and until next time, folks stay curious, stay bold and keep leading your school on a mission.

Speaker 2: 32:32

The School on a Mission podcast is produced by Growing Leaders, a Maxwell Leadership Company. You can find out more about Growing Leaders at growingleaderscom. Growingleaders at growingleaderscom. We'd like to thank especially ASCD Hope Hero, megan Van Voorhees, the American Psychological Association and, of course, john Maxwell for the leadership and insights that contributed to today's conversation. This podcast was produced by Angelica Oliver. To find out more about the School on a Mission podcast, head over to schoolonamissionpodcastcom.