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Hey everyone and welcome back. My name is Andrew McPeak and with me is the ever inspiring Gina Watts. Ooh, I like that intro. Yeah, you like that one? Well, we're so excited that you're with us folks. If you believe that schools should be more than just about essays and GPAs, if you believe that EQs are just as important as IQs, and if you expect amazing things from the next generation, then you're in the right place because we believe that too.

Today, we're talking about school leaders' perspectives on parental intervention. In fact, this is episode two of A Two-Parter. The last one we talked about parents' views on schools. Today, we're gonna talk about schools' views on parents. Now, in this episode, it's gonna be a little bit longer, but that is because we did not interview one, but two experts on this subject. It's gonna be good. It is, Andrew. But before we get into that, here's our kickoff question. If you could create a new school subject,

What would it be and why? Mine comes from, felt like a bone I wanted to pick with my literature teacher. Okay. Which is, we read a lot of books and all of them felt like they were 100 years old or more. And I have no problem with the classics.

but I felt like it needed balance. So I would create a modern literature class. Which of course is something that you can do in college, I would have loved to see that in high school. In high school, Which is really just an excuse for me to read Harry Potter in school, but. Basically, it's fine. There you go. I could get behind that. So for me, it would be survival skills. that's fun. I am a fan of like, survivor, amazing race, this kind of.

You watch those faithfully even still? Amazing Race more than I do Survivor. But yes. So I was a teen mom. And when I was a teen mom, I had this like, just like this posture of, know, when I get to a point in my life that I have the money and the resources, I would love to serve young women who find themselves as a teen parent. And I want them to learn survival skills.

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And I want us to live on a farm together. This is the whole thing. I want us to all live on a farm together and raise our kids and learn how to survive. It's almost like apocalyptic. It's like if there's no, if you don't know how to do anything else, like you'll know. know how to keep yourself alive. Yeah, you'll know how to do this. don't know why I went that aggressive. I did not grow up on a farm. I did not, I just. I love the idea that you're gonna teach people how to do all these things that you don't know how to At all.

Sounds like its own TV show. I would be a great one. be watch that it would be a great one But yeah, I do think from a perspective of building, know resilience problem-solving skills Yeah, I think we just need more space and also to do it in a creative fun way like that It's probably why I like amazing race. Yeah, it's like we're competitive. We're racing but also it's like you got to figure some stuff out yeah, and we're gonna put you in a country where you don't know the language and You don't know what side of the road to drive on

And you're gonna have to get from so like we would have deal with the students but like a very cool immersive experience to build resiliency and problem-solving skills. I know dope You're welcome. Whoever heard that idea and is now gonna do it. Yeah, it's Yeah, give me credit Yeah, okay So, know art we know that schools do a lot already, you know and

even if they don't already teach the subjects that we have so bravely created. That we did give them good ideas. We did give them good ideas. It does take a whole community to invest in what schools are doing. So we want you to hear from our guests. Do you want to introduce our guests and tell everybody what we're going to talk about today? Absolutely. So we have two folks, Rosie Lounds and Taylor Hasty. Both of them are going to share their experiences and insights from managing parental involvement in schools.

from two different perspectives. So representing virtual schools, have Rosie. She is a second generation teacher with an impressive career spanning over 27 years as an educator. Rosie's taught grades three through seven. She's served as an EIP teacher, lead teacher, assistant principal, principal, but the most extensive experience was actually in virtual school settings.

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Rosie brings a unique perspective on how to engage parents because she spent so much time in virtual schools. Her mantra is, if better is possible, good is not enough. I love that. If better is possible, good is not all the snaps, all the snaps. Yes. So it perfectly encapsulates her dedication to excellence in education. And for our in-person schools perspective, we have Taylor Hasty. Taylor is the high school principal and athletic director at Silverdale Baptist Academy.

where he has been serving since 2019 with a background as the head basketball coach and athletic director at Bryan College. Taylor is committed to being a transformational leader. He's passionate about fostering character, integrity, and excellence in his students and colleagues alike. Taylor's leadership aims to empower others to make a positive impact in their communities. So obviously we are thrilled to have both Rosie and Taylor in our podcast.

to share their insights and experiences. So let's dive in and see how to explore parental involvement and how it can shape the educational journey, whether you're in a virtual classroom or a traditional school setting. So let's hear from both of them. Yeah, it's kind of a whole host of different things. This is Taylor. I think in college, thinking about, you know, what are you going to do? And everybody tends to ask you that question. I mean, even in high school, they're asking you, what are you going to do with your life as if you could figure that out at 17 and 18?

But my time in college just around some mentors that I had and being kind of challenged to think about, okay, well, how are you, you what are your gifts? What are the things that you're good at? And trying to think about that, I really kind of felt pulled to the next generation wanting to invest in them. And shortly after college, I don't remember who said this to me, but basically made the point, what if, you know, everybody wants to change the world, right? Everybody wants to go out and, you know, in today's world be famous, you know.

maybe it's social media or do something that matters. And they said to me, what if the most important thing you do is actually invest in the people who are following you? Like what if they're actually the ones who are gonna change the world because you've invested in them? And I thought, man, that is such a unique concept. And I'm just really falling in love with that idea. Like, okay, maybe it isn't me, but maybe it's...

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the students in which I'm investing the next generation, maybe they're the ones that are gonna get it right. I've just really, everything that I've tried to do all along my career throughout education has been with that idea in mind. I love that. It's such a powerful perspective. Investing in the next generation can have a lasting impact. Absolutely. Speaking of inspiration, though, let's talk about Rosie's transition from traditional to a virtual teaching environment and what stood out the most in making that shift. This is Rosie.

So I started out in brick and mortar, graduated from Mercer University, middle grades, math and reading, and started in Henry County at sixth grade. And I taught in Henry County, the middle school for three years and moved to fifth grade.

The elementary school did all subjects and I was in Henry County for nine years. At that time, if you're familiar with Metro Atlanta, I was living in Stone Mountain, but commuting to Henry County, it had my first child and decided to make a leap to Gwinnett County. So I left Henry, went to Gwinnett County for a year and then got pregnant with my second child and I actually stayed home for nine years. So I was a stay at home mom.

volunteer extraordinaire and all that good stuff. Then from there, someone thought that I might be a good fit for this new type of school called Cyber Academy. And it was the first virtual academy in Georgia and thought I might be a good fit. So interviewed, had no idea what I was doing, had not even ever done a PowerPoint, but I got the job. So.

I started as a seventh grade social studies teacher at Georgia. It was Georgia Virtual at that time, became Georgia Cyber Academy, which was 100 % online state charter school. Wow.

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What a journey. Transitioning from traditional to virtual education must have been quite the experience. Indeed, Gina. It was. She has quite a story. Moving forward, let's explore the role of parental involvement in education. So first, I asked Taylor about the biggest benefits and challenges he's encountered with parents as the leader of a school.

Well, I certainly think that anybody listening to the podcast can identify with some of the issues that are challenges that have to be overcome when you begin partnering with parents. And I also think, you know, school leaders all over the country can speak to how important parental involvement is in the life of a child. Whether we're talking about a first grader, you know, whether we're talking about a middle schooler, whether it's a senior who's getting ready to graduate and move on in the world, the partnership with parents is so important.

You know, we as a school certainly take that seriously and desire that we get it right some days and like everyone, we get it wrong some days. So, but I really think that the biggest benefit is that you are, if we believe that parents matter, and we do, if we believe that the child matters, and we do, then partnering with

maybe the people who care about the child the most. I've never heard a mom or dad sit in an office or in a classroom or if you're just meeting them for the first time say, you know, I really don't care very much about my kid. That's not true. They all care about their kid the most. And so as a school who also really cares deeply about the wellbeing and growth and mentorship of the child.

We want to partner with the people who love them the most and that's their parents. And I think it's a unique partnership because sometimes we're seeing the child or the student in our case, you know, sitting in our classrooms and different extracurricular activities and whatnot. We see them in a different environment than who they are in the home. And so the experience that we have with the child then needs to be shared with the parent and the parent then and sharing their experience with the child, we can work together for the child's good.

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And I think that is really the biggest benefit is that when students leave your schools at whatever grade that school ends. So if it's an elementary school and the child is moving down the street to the middle school or middle school to the high school, or if they, you know, like in our context, we have students who are here from kindergarten all the way through 12th grade. So we have a 13 year partnership in some cases with parents, which is really kind of a unique thing. But the biggest benefit to that is watching that child walk up

across the stage is an 18 year old, 19 year old senior, shake the hand of our head of school and receive their diploma and then launching them out into the world and being able to look at mom and dad or grandparent or guardian and celebrate that moment together saying, hey, we did it. You know, it's a we did not a I did or the school did or a teacher did or the parents made a good thing you guys got it right. Cause otherwise who knew? it's a we. And I think that we

You know, we mentioned belief a few minutes ago that we is something that the student will remember hopefully long after they graduated. love that quote. It really hits home. The partnership between parents and schools is so crucial when parents and educators team up. Kids are the ones who benefit the most. That's right. It's all about the we approach. Yes. All about we.

team effort, combining the efforts for the child's success. Both parents and teachers see different sides of the child and offer unique insights. We need each other. We absolutely do. So let's talk about how this dynamic between parent and school changes when you're in a virtual school setting. Parental involvement looks quite different when compared to a traditional school. That's true. In virtual schools, parents often take on more of a hands-on role.

helping with daily routines, managing schedules, and assisting with technology. It offers flexibility, but also requires parents to be more proactive and organized. Exactly. In fact, a lot of parents learned this during the pandemic, didn't they? The virtual model allows for customized learning experiences and closer parent-to-student interaction, but it also demands a higher level of commitment and creativity from those parents. Balancing these things can be very tough, but also very rewarding.

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Well, let's talk about a brick and mortar first. traditionally in a brick and mortar, parent gets a child on bus or brings child to the car rider line, drops them off, says bye bye, and I'll see you again in six hours. Pick back up or get off the bus. And for the most part, if the student is not having any issues, they're left alone to do their thing. And as long as no news is good news, I'm in the school of traditional brick and mortar. In a virtual setting, it has

to be a partnership of all three, student, school, parent. Because in a virtual setting, I cannot go, for example, when I taught at Georgia Cyber Academy, I lived in Lawrenceville, Georgia. I had students from the entire state of Georgia. We pulled from every single county. I cannot go to Waycross, Georgia and knock on your door and say, friend, I need you to get out of bed.

because I need you in class. I have to have some adult or some person in that household to wake friend up and make sure that they're engaged. In a virtual setting, for the student to get as much as they can out of that type of program, you must have an adult. Doesn't have to be the parent. It can be any trusted adult in that child's life.

to make sure that they're doing everything that they need to be doing. Andrew, that really highlights the differences between traditional and virtual schooling. In brick and mortar schools, parents often drop their kids off and pick them up without much day-to-day interaction, I guess, unless there's an issue. Yeah, yeah. Of course, in virtual settings, that's a whole different ballgame. The involvement of an adult at home is crucial, whether it's a parent or another trusted adult.

They play a significant role in ensuring that the student is engaged and on track. Right. So the adult at home becomes a key partner in the educational process. It's a more hands on role, making sure students attend classes and complete their assignments. Yeah, this partnership is vital for virtual learning to succeed, but it also presents some unique challenges, especially for busy families. Many parents, it seems like, probably struggle to find the time to be involved.

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So how can schools help busy families get more involved? I mean, what kind of opportunities can they create to accommodate hectic schedules? Why don't we dive into some practical advice and strategies? Man, you're right. It is such a challenge. Busyness affects all of us, not only our families, but me too, right? We all have full calendars. It's like the more full your calendar is, the better you feel like you're doing, right? Busyness is such a, you know, when people ask, hey, how you doing?

busy. You're like, good, good for you. You're great. That's great. You know, it's like we've maybe missed the mark on defining that. I think there's a couple of things that we've done as a school and every year we're trying to do it better or we look back and go, we got that wrong. need to do. mean, so it's not, you're always working at it. Couple of things that we've done. We don't do anything on Wednesday nights.

So that night is completely off for our families. We don't allow there to be, there's a few cases in which we might have to have a postseason game for one of our athletic programs because that's controlled by the state. It's not controlled by our Academy, but we try to create a one night a week where we really are wanting our families to be at home. They can go to church, can, you whatever it is they're doing on Wednesday night, but they can, that time is meant for the family.

So we try to demonstrate as a school how much value we see in the family. We've done some different, where we've done some different things, like we would require parents to attend certain events if they want to participate in an extracurricular club, they have to come to that club meeting, there's a parent meeting they have to attend, or their child won't be allowed to participate. So we do some things like that. Of course, we're never 100. If we have 25 families that are supposed to show up to be a part of the debate club, we'll have 23.

you know, and that would be the best we've ever had attended, right? So it doesn't always work that way. And you have to live with understanding, but I've found two things in my time here that I've watched our Academy do over and over and over again. One is that lead time allows people to make time. So the more lead time you give them, so if they know like, hey, in six weeks on this Monday night, this is gonna happen and you've gotta be there, then they can make the time.

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And if you're throwing it on, you know, that communication, that advance, we put our school calendar out. We try not to ever change it. We try to lock it in and leave it. And sometimes you have to adjust because there's things that happen outside of your control, obviously, but we do everything we can to protect that. lead time allows people to make time. And that's really been important. The second thing is, is that we've had to really demonstrate value to our parents. So we've had to listen to feedback. We've had to say, okay, what do you guys really want to know? What's a

important to you? What things are you struggling with? Or how can we help you? We're partnering with you. So what does it look like? What do need more of? And we've tried to meet those needs. the more that we've been able to add value to our families through different meetings. And the key to that really is not having a meeting when you could have sent an email, right? If you could just have sent it home, then...

just send it home, don't have a meeting for that. But whether it's bringing in a speaker, whether it's maybe our head of school is gonna share our board chair, or we're gonna do like a student panel where some students are gonna share with families, they're gonna, like where maybe some of our high school students are gonna share with elementary families. And so they were reflecting on their time in elementary school, having been a seven year old, having been a nine year old, they're sharing back. so parents find a lot of value in that. And when you can demonstrate value, you win.

the conversations that are happening that you're not a part of, right? So where, you you get the email and it says, hey, on September 3rd, you got to go to this meeting and you call your friend, you go, Andrew, did you get that email from the school? Like, are you going to go to that thing? And you go, yeah, last time we were there, my wife loved it. And that's a great night. We're definitely going this year. Well, that just shaped the conversation. The school was never a part of because the value add was there for the family. Gina, it's true.

We all struggle with busyness and it can make parental involvement in schools really challenging, but the impact of that involvement is undeniable. Yeah, schools are constantly trying to balance activities and family time. For instance, some schools set aside specific nights, like no activities on Wednesday nights, to give families a break. It's about showing parents that their time really is valued. Yeah, that was a great idea from Taylor.

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Advanced notice, like he talked about, is also crucial. I love that. Schools that provide plenty of lead time for events find that more parents can take time to lead or attend an event. It's about clear communication and demonstrating the value of their involvement. Speaking of involvement, it's even more complex in a virtual school setting. Yeah, it totally is. So let's discuss a different challenge, right? Some parents might hesitate to engage due to language barriers.

or lack of familiarity with some of the technology involved in a virtual classroom. So what can virtual schools do to bridge these gaps and make all families feel supported? Well, what I would tell my staff is you have to, we called ourselves the collection agency of education, because that's the role you have to take on. So much like a collection agent bugs you till you do whatever they're asking, that's what we had to do. So.

If I couldn't get the student via email or, you know, just coming to class, I'm on the phone, you know, calling, sending letters. I mean, really anything. If you live within a distance, I might show up at your door knocking saying, friend, I need you in class because, you know, you have a 32. You have to be very okay with maybe calling them at six o'clock at night and having a conference.

You got to be okay with that to be a virtual teacher. It's not necessarily going to be eight to three. Most of the time it's not. In fact, our hours were eight to five. So we didn't even have a traditional setting. really paints a vivid picture, doesn't she? Comparing virtual educators to collection agents.

What an analogy. Absolutely, absolutely. It really emphasizes the persistence needed to ensure that students are engaged in a virtual setting. You can't just rely on emails or class attendance. Sometimes you have to go above and beyond, even showing up at their door if necessary, which is crazy to think about. And it's not your typical eight to three job either. Rosie mentions being available until five and sometimes having conferences at six. It's all about being flexible and meeting students and parents where they are. Absolutely.

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Flexibility is key, right? Speaking of flexibility though, let's dive into another aspect of school parent relationships. Let's see, how do schools handle situations like where they and the parents might have a different view on a student's needs? We're kind of missing each other. How do we resolve that? Yeah, that's a great question because there are always situations that pop up sometimes on a weekly basis where

you know, a student had an experience in the classroom or with another group of students or in the school sees it one way. And really when I say school, that's a very general term. And you're right. So you're right to point out specifically, it could be the teacher, it could be the administrator, it could be the coach or that observed something happened. The kid goes home, tells their version of the story and mom comes in and that's their truth, right? They come in and they say, this is what happened. And you're like, well, maybe not. Maybe there's some additional information that you need to have.

related to that incident or situation. The thing I think that has served us well, when we get it right, because we don't always get it right, so the thing that has served us well is to take a posture of listening to try to hear the parent out fully. So sometimes I'll listen to respond and so I'm coming in, maybe it's a parent who I've already had an interaction with that has not ended well, maybe, but we'll say it that way. So I'm already in with,

both barrels are loaded and I'm ready for action. And I just, you know, so as the parent begins to talk, the minute they say something wrong, I'm jumping in to correct them right away. And that almost never ends well. I mean, the situations that I've been a part of that have really ended poorly are usually my fault. So the idea of listening all the way through, seeking understanding and trying to hear the parent's perspective of what took place. I like to involve

the student, the child whenever possible, depending upon the age group with which you're working with that's more possible than others. I work with mostly high school students. so because of that, you you can have a 16 year old that comes in and they can share directly with what happens or their experience. And then because often when we're willing to listen, then so is the parent or guardian, right? They're more likely to hear you out because you also listen. You're almost trying to lead by example there.

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And I also think that when parents are right, it's important to acknowledge that. It's important to acknowledge when maybe the experience of the student, maybe that teacher was disrespectful, or maybe the teacher didn't really see what happened. And so the opportunity you have then to agree with the parent to say, you know, I didn't know that. I didn't see that.

you know, thank you for telling me that I didn't have that piece of information. When you can say things like that, you find that parents are way more engaged and more willing to also maybe acknowledge some things that they don't know. They don't see they're not in the classroom. They're not at lunch. They're not in the parking lot after school or they don't always see the interaction that happens between students at car line. And so for them to also understand that their child

is a participant at times in what may have occurred and that they rarely get the full story from their child. so really, you've heard this before, Andrew, and everyone listening to this has heard it too, that there's two sides to every story and the truth is somewhere in the middle. And so framing the conversation, hey, I'm gonna share a perspective, I know you're gonna share a perspective, so let's kind of share that, and then let's search together again with the heart of the child in mind.

that we're trying to do everything we can to shape that child in the best way possible on the other side of this experience. And that's really hard, especially if the parent is convinced that the child was wronged in some way. Maybe, you know, to use the popular term bullied, you know, that they feel like their child was bullied. And so they're coming in and they are ready to rail against the bully. And I understand that. We have to understand that.

Who loves that child the most? The parent does. And so when the child comes home and they say, was my experience, it was so terrible. And the parent comes to see the next day, you then you have to understand that from the parent's perspective. And I think that helps disarm some of the maybe vitriol that can occur between schools and parents to know that we're on the same team. You know, Taylor makes some really good points about the importance of listening to parents and understanding their perspective.

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Sometimes the school and the parents see things differently and it's crucial to bridge that gap with open communication. Yeah, it really is all about taking a step back and truly listening. you know, it's believing, it's also believing that maybe you don't know everything, like either side. You have to listen to each other. Because when we listen first, parents feel heard and valued. And often that paves the way for them to be more receptive to what

we as educators have to say. Absolutely. There's so much emotional intelligence in that. Involving the student as well in these conversations can also provide a clearer picture of the situation. It's about creating a dialogue, not a debate. Hey. And it's also acknowledging when parents are right, that can go a long way in building trust. It shows that we're all on the same team working towards the best outcome for the child. So speaking of team effort, let's talk about the reality that not all parents

are actively involved in their child's education, right? We've got very involved parents, but sometimes we have under-involved parents. Sometimes it's by choice, but often it's due to situational factors, like a single mom working multiple jobs. So I asked Rosie what specific outreach methods schools can use to connect with these families and help encourage their participation in that virtual learning environment. It starts on day one because if you don't have an authentic

relationship with student and parent. It doesn't matter what you're trying to get them to do. They're really not going to do it, especially if they're under-involved anyway. I have found both in brick and mortar and virtual, usually, parents that are what you just described did not have a pleasant experience when they were in school. And therefore, it has created

this relationship where even though it's their own child, it brings back bad times and just don't want to go there. So the first step is before you even have the student, send a postcard.

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Hey, I'm going to be your teacher. I'm looking for you. there's friend. It's no, I'm not calling about your student being in trouble or you not doing what you need to be doing. This is just hello. I'm a person. You're a person. Let's just be friendly and start it that way. And that collection agency mind frame, you just call every number in your student database, grandma, aunt, mom, boyfriend, whoever's numbers there.

You're calling every single one of them until you get a live person. And again, not, you know, judgmental, just, hey, I need to talk. We've got, you know, just open. And that's one strategy that I've found is successful if you do it early instead of late. Rosie really makes a strong case for building authentic relationships with students and parents from the start.

It's all about trust and that proactive communication. Absolutely. I love her idea of sending a postcard with a friendly note before the school year begins. sets a positive tone and helps her realize that it's really all about partnering with the parents, not just contacting them when there's an issue. And Rosie's strategy of persistently calling every number in the student database can help make that initial connection. Yeah, she is a very driven individual, isn't she?

Now, let's talk about those over-involved parents. We've talked about under-involved parents. What about those who are showing up a little too much? We asked both leaders what we should do when parental intervention becomes disruptive. Well, it depends, obviously, on the where in the school they're over-involved, right? And so what I mean by that is

for us, because we're dealing with a K through 12 school, we have different amounts of over-involvement at different levels, right? So, you know, in first grade, that over-involve parent maybe doesn't seem so over-involve because the teacher just loves the fact that, you know, he or she has a parent in the room who's willing to do anything, you know? And so they love the fact that that parent is over-involve. And in middle school, middle school is such a tough time, you know, for parents that the school, a lot of time, we like to see parents because they help you, you you're helping them.

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you know, have a relationship with their child that maybe they don't have otherwise. But in the high school, we often really challenge our families to release their student and to begin to allow them to have more freedom in all sorts of different ways. And that can be a challenge because you can still have the mom or the dad or the grandmother, et cetera, who

they really want to be in the classroom. And you're like, you know, that this is 10th grade US history. You're not allowed to be in a classroom. You know, this isn't second grade art or I can't thank you for your feedback, you know, but it's not necessary. think we, so we do some things where we communicate in the high school, we communicate with the child first. So the child receives communication before the parent. So the child is the one. the 17 year old is getting an email.

from their history teacher and the parent probably is not getting that email because we're trying to steer that student to a place of responsibility and to where they're really taking ownership over their experience in the classroom and at the school. Now, of course, we communicate with parents, that's a must, but we probably don't communicate with them the direct specifics that we might communicate with the student while they're here at school. So we do that. The other thing that we try to do is we try to challenge our faculty

not to reach out to the same person every time. if Mr. Hasty, I'll just use my own name, if Mr. Hasty is constantly emailing the homeroom teacher going, hey, I'll take care of breakfast on Friday, or I'll be there for the field trip, that it is 100 % okay and encouraged for that teacher to email and say, Mr. Hasty, thank you so much for next Friday, but it's already taken care of. We've already had a couple of parents step up and take care of it, and we're so thankful for your involvement, but.

try to redirect that energy in a way that's positive and encouraging, but also create some boundaries. Again, clear communication with parents is so important. It matters. And when you can set expectations, that over-involved parent will get it eventually. I have found that a lot of times the parent who is over-involved has been over-involved for a long time because nobody was willing to tell them that they were over-involved. And so if you can...

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you know, see that coming early. And we have teachers and administrators who are better at this than others. I've been better at this than at, you know, one time or another, depending on who we're talking about. this is something that's not easy by any means. Certainly easier to sit here and talk about than it is to actually do it. But just kind of saying, okay, hey, you know, thank you. Or we really appreciate what you did for us last month. We would love to have you help us out in February, two months from now. You know, like just trying to set some.

there's a rotation. I didn't realize it's not going to be me every time, you know, that there's kind of more of a understanding that's created when you communicate that way. Yes. In the virtual environment, I saw that more than I've seen it in Brigham order for obvious reason. We had what you described exactly happening. Student parent was sitting with the student every single class test, everything. And we knew the student or the parent was helping the student with their work.

And because virtual, everything is online. So every assignment. So you can see where the problem's going to start. That experience actually led us to, when I left, we were having any tests that we had students take. So I can take your microphone away. I can take your chat away. We have really very few behavior problems because I limit your audience. So if a parent gets a little over the top, I just...

remove the mic in the chat and then I call them afterward and let them know why I did that. But in that instance where you have a parent doing the student's work, which is to me the most problematic, is I've had to have difficult conversations with parents where I called them and I said, listen, I know your friend is not, their work that they're showing me is not the work of a seventh grader.

I've graded enough essays. I know when it's a 12-year-old and I know when it's a 30 or 40-year-old. Both of these leaders, Rosie and Taylor, bring up some excellent points about managing over-involved parents. It's definitely a challenge and it varies across different school levels. Right. you know, like in elementary school, parents' involvement is often welcome. Yeah, It's encouraged. But as students get older, especially in high school, it's crucial for them to develop independence. Absolutely.

Growing Leaders (35:52.108)
So Taylor's approach of communicating directly with the high school students first, it's a really great way to foster that independence. But let's shift gears a little bit. Gina, one of the reasons I wanted to interview Taylor specifically is because of his school's unique method of creating what he calls mandatory environments to engage parents. I actually got to visit his school and see this in action.

Parents know when they sign their kids up for his school, they are expected to attend parent gatherings during the year. It's a very unique approach and it's made him pretty successful at getting parents in the room. Of course, not all the parents.

Well, I'm not sure we've ever had a meeting where we've invited 25 and actually gotten 22 to show up. So if there's someone out there that has, please call me because I'd love to hear from them and learn from them too. Because I think there's some important expectations on our side where we say, OK, well, if we're going to invite these families.

then what is reasonable for us? What are we gonna be satisfied with? We're not gonna be satisfied with six families showing up or 11 families, but if we can get 60 % or 70, because again, we're trying to think about, do we have enough of a influence on that among those parents to where the majority of them are going to influence the rest? So whatever that is based on the group size. So.

We, and we really do, we expect, so when parents sit down and look, we're a private academy, so we have an opportunity to sit down with families before they ever enroll their children. And so that's a unique privilege that we have to do that, that we invite families to enroll their students here. And part of that conversation is them understanding their involvement, as you mentioned, and the requirement for them to show up at different events. But I also think one of the things that we've learned over the history of our academy is,

Growing Leaders (37:39.342)
We consistently solicit feedback from our parents. And so we, you when there's an event, like you came to an event, which was amazing. And it was so, my goodness, it was so valuable. I learned so much personally, much less anybody else. was just incredible. But we, even in that event, that was an absolute home run by every measure, we sent a survey out and got feedback from our parents. And the overall majority loved it. And there were a couple of suggestions that we go, okay,

We'll consider that next time. Maybe that would help us make sure instead of 62%, we could get 70 % or we could get 74 % or whatever it might be of our families to come. And that really, that feedback loop is really important for us. That's helped us over the 25 years our Academy has been in existence. That feedback loop has helped us learn, it's helped us grow, it's helped us figure out. Cause sometimes I might go, man, I thought that was the best night we've ever had.

the majority of parents, they don't think that. Well, if we don't ask that question, then we don't know. And like you mentioned earlier, those conversations are not a part of, they're going, don't go on Tuesday, it's a waste of time. If we don't give them an opportunity to say that to us, then we won't know that. And the challenge with feedback, I've learned this from our head of school, who is an incredibly gifted leader. She often says, feedback is an opportunity to look in the mirror instead of the window.

You know, that we love to look through the window. We love to look at other people. We love to look outside. We love to point fingers. We love to talk about what's going on outside. But the mirror is an opportunity for us to find those nuggets that we can clean up, those things that we can notice that then we go, okay, that's something we can fix. That's fixable. We can do that. We can do that. We can do that. And even if you can't fix it, the mirror allows you to see it. And sometimes being aware of it really matters.

It may not be something you can do anything about, but because you know about it, you can accept it. And so that has really helped us shape those evenings where we do create mandatory environments where we're saying, hey, you have to come. But if because you have to come, we're going to make it as amazing as we possibly can. This is not an opportunity for us to stand up and just, you know, read you some things that are in our handbook. And then we can say we had a meeting.

Growing Leaders (39:59.49)
This is an opportunity for us to help you be a better parent, for us to be a better school, for us to work on our culture, all of those things. And that, as I mentioned earlier, that value add has really been important for us, but we've only been able to do that because of that feedback loop. It's so great to hear about the effort to involve parents and set really clear expectations. Taylor's strategy of creating mandatory environments for these parents seems very effective.

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm sure there's been plenty of challenges, but it's also been really positive. It's about setting clear expectations from the start and continually seeking feedback. Speaking of which, let's talk about some practical ideas schools can use to ensure open communication and to build trust with parents, especially when there are difficult conversations that need to be had. Taylor and Rosie both had some great ideas on this. I I think that shared vocabulary is really powerful.

So when you can say the same, you know, it can be redundant a little bit, I guess, but when you can say the same thing or the same philosophy, maybe in different ways over and over and over again, that allows you then to have shared understanding. so, you know, parents, when you're communicating to them, whether it be you're communicating to them about an upcoming meeting, you're communicating them about an upcoming school year, the week ahead, an event that's taking place, a meeting that's occurring.

and you're using all the same language and the same philosophy, and then you're acting in line with that, right? The integrity of that has to be there. You can't just say, hey, we're gonna communicate to you guys next year's calendar, and it's set and not gonna change, and then change it all the time. That doesn't work. If you say one thing and do another, that's gonna erode trust, and that's gonna carry over into challenging situations where you deal with...

Sometimes, you know, some of the hardest situations I've dealt with have been when two families are on opposite side of an issue and you're the third party. Where we have two families that are in disagreement about maybe the way that their children are treating each other or something that happened in class or, you know, and now they're sitting in an office and...

Growing Leaders (42:10.616)
They're asking, you know, me as an administrator or a teacher or what have you to sort through the situation. And you're like, man, I don't want to pick a side here. I'm not sure either side is really the, and you're trying to steer, you know, grown adults in the right direction. Not all of whom want to handle that as maturely as possible, because sometimes they just want to come in and blow steam. And that's really a challenging thing. First of all, you have to work really hard in the summer so you're ready.

for day one, you've got to have a calendar set. You've got to have your communication already drafted, ready to go on day before day one. So open house, they need to know at least three weeks ahead of time so that they can make work plans. It needs cannot change. So you better make sure it's right. Make sure you don't have spelling errors, know, grammar errors. Let's get all that done. So to me, really, it's.

preparing before the event and going through every tiny detail that you possibly can think of so it's seamless for the parent. It's clear what's happening. Where do I go? Where do I part? You want that first experience in your school for the beginning of the year to be very positive and not frustrating to the parent. So that's number one. Plan and make sure you communicate.

at least three or four weeks ahead of time of whatever it is you're talking about. All right, so I'm going to go to my virtual days when I was a teacher, seventh grade teacher, and I had this. So in the beginning part of GCA, it was like the Wild West. We had no idea what we were doing. We were creating, building the plane while we were flying it. OK, because I came in on year three. So I had 72 in my home room. I taught over 300 students.

So just, know, mull those numbers over for a minute. So I had a student, we'll just call him G for our story. And G from the get-go was not doing anything. I'm not really sure where he was, but he wasn't coming to class and he certainly wasn't doing any work. So start calling. Get a hold of mom, single mom. think there were seven children in the family and...

Growing Leaders (44:34.232)
Four of them were the virtual students and then the others were under the age of five. And here's the kicker. So when the student was doing schoolwork, mom was working one of the jobs and the older students were supposed to be taking care of the younger siblings while going to class and doing work. So we quickly found out that was not very successful. So

What we did is I talked to mom, said, G is not gonna pass the seventh grade if we continue doing this. So we've got to work out something. So when do you get home from job two? Because I think she did like a swing shift of some sort. So she said, I get home at five o'clock and I don't go back to work till 11 at night. And so I said, great. All right, this is what we're gonna do. From the hours of five,

to eight, I need G to be with me in a room so we can get him back on track because he was already behind. So now we're just trying to get him. And so I would meet with him five to eight, Monday through Thursday like this. And I would say, OK, friend, open up platform. OK, do you know? Hey, come on, come on. Punch the button. And I could see if he was in there. was that type of system where you can see if the students were working. And I basically did work.

while he, I say, okay. And so that friend that was in seventh grade, he made it. And I thankfully was still there at that school at that time. And I saw him graduate from the virtual school. So as a 12th grader, he made it. You know, it's just such a powerful moment. There's something about the relationship between human beings. If you can reach them and stick with them, it can change the projection of that child's life.

I love Taylor's emphasis on shared vocabulary and consistent communication. resonates deeply with me. Aligning our words with our actions is fundamental when nurturing trust, especially with parents. know, Rosie also underscored the importance of meticulous planning for effective communication and parent engagement, it being crucial in the virtual learning environment where clarity is really paramount. Absolutely.

Growing Leaders (46:57.708)
So Rosie's story about G truly illustrates the dedication and creativity required in education. I love her so much because her commitment to supporting this struggling student alongside his parents showcases the power of collaboration with parents in problem solving for kids. Yeah, Andrew. I mean, it reinforces how collaboration between schools and families can lead to remarkable outcomes, addressing challenges like attendance and academic success through personalized support and

having truly open dialogue. Absolutely. So, I mean, the highest degree of thanks to Taylor and Rosie. Yes, here, here, woo-woo! So much insight, so many ideas. These are both remarkable leaders. And I love how we hit this issue from two very different perspectives on this challenge as well. We've heard a lot today, and that wraps it up for our interviews. But before we end our time together, you know we got a DMI. Yes, I've been waiting for this, Andrew.

Do you wanna kick us off? Yeah, absolutely. So our listeners will remember DMI stands for Don't Miss It. And this is where Gina and I both identify something that we feel like we wanna pull out, underline, highlight, bold, whatever it is, something we don't want you to miss. So I'll kick us off with mine. I think so many great ideas were said, but the one that I really loved was an idea that Taylor said. When he approaches a parent,

with whom he has a disagreement, right? So they're putting in a lot of work, these professional teachers, and they sit down with that parent. The parent is upset about something that's going on. I just loved his perspective because what I expected him to say was, here are three ways to convince the parent they're wrong, you know?

Because I think, honestly, in a lot of schools I go to, there is sort of an undercurrent of hostility. Or at least a belief that parents don't really know what they're talking about. And what I love so much about his perspective is he created open and fertile ground to say, the parent is coming because we have a disagreement and we need to resolve that disagreement. They are not wrong, right? There might have been miscommunication, but he he leans in so much.

Growing Leaders (49:05.558)
And it's basically starting, we have a saying around growing leaders we've talked about for a long time about beginning with belief, right? It's one of our core driving values. When we approach a conversation, whether we know that person and have known them for a long time, or whether we just met them, whether they're coming hot and bothered, right? Or they're coming with a smile on their face, we are gonna believe the best about that person. And I feel like if schools and parents are gonna be in sync, some believing the best has to be

on the table, I think that's very unique. There's not a lot of schools, I feel like, that are taking that perspective. I genuinely couldn't agree more. And I think that Taylor's school and then the examples he gave us really show how you can do that. Like, it moves from philosophy of believing the best to like, this is the way that you can live that out and do that. You know, for me, my DMI is something that Rosie shared, I believe it was Rosie, about like sending postcards.

And again, super, super practical approach, but I think Taylor referenced about like when you know, get to high school, you wanna create that independence and being a former higher education faculty member. You probably would have liked your students to be a little more independent than you were. I spent a lot of time talking to moms and dads and grandparents about why I can't talk to them. Yeah, about why they shouldn't be calling you. Yeah, love you, please drive through. Right, so I have...

spent a lot of time doing that. And here's the thing, I think it's finding that healthy tension. Because guess what, in high school we still want the postcard as a parent. So now let me talk about it as a parent. As a parent I still want the postcard. And so there are things that we give up that worked really well in elementary school. And they're as simple as the postcard that we need to keep when they're in high school. And I think it's just thinking about those strategies.

that maybe we put to the side for whatever reason and they actually worked and they probably still would work now. So kind of simple, but also I feel really super practical. Because we got a lot of information today. We did and really what I love so much about that idea is that it's a great place to start. So if you feel like I'm just lost with what to do about parents, start by doing something simple. Sending out cards, setting expectations, those meetings, those kinds of things.

Growing Leaders (51:24.862)
Love it. Yeah, this was really good. This is a like you should listen to it a couple of times. It does feel that way. Because there's a lot of information. You can fast forward through our parts. Yeah, that's fine. Listen to them. Listen to them. Slow it down. So good. So good. Well, thank you all for listening. Hopefully you got to listen to both part one and part two of our conversation about parents and schools. We're so honored that you would join us for this episode of the School on a Mission podcast. And we have to say a special thanks.

to both Taylor and Rosie for joining us and sharing all that wisdom with us. Now, before you hit skip onto your next podcast, we've got a little challenge for you. Grab a pen, a notebook, sticky note, even the back of your hand, your phone, whatever you got. And I want you to write down one action you're gonna take this week because of this episode. Maybe it's something you're gonna do. It's on your to-do list. Maybe it's something you're gonna investigate in your school. You've got questions. Maybe you wanna read more about something or perhaps there's a person you wanna meet with. Whatever it is, write it down. Got it?

Perfect. Now, shoot us a DM on social media to tell us what you're going to do. We can't wait to see what awesome things you're up to. Until next time, folks, stay curious, stay bold, and keep leading your school on a mission. The School on a Mission podcast is produced by Growing Leaders, a Maxwell leadership company. You can find out more about Growing Leaders at growingleaders.com.

We'd like to especially thank Rosie Lounds and Taylor Hasty for joining us as guests in today's episode. To find out more about the School on a Mission podcast, head over to schoolonamissionpodcast.com. This podcast was produced by Angelica Oliver and edited by Jake Decker.