Welcome back, everyone. I'm Gina Watts, and joining me is my fantastic co-host, Andrew McPeak. Hello, Gina. How are you? Good, good. If you believe that school should be more than just essays and GPAs, if you believe that EQs are as important as IQs, if you expect amazing things from the next generation, then you are in the right place, because we believe that, too. Raise your hand if you believe that parents play a crucial role in shaping the educational landscape. Thank you, Andrew. You're welcome. If you can't tell, we're raising our hands very, very high. I have two hands in the air. Two. Because I absolutely believe, especially after spending so much time in schools, that parents are an essential aspect of student success. So we got to talk about this. But first, we got to do our question of the week. OK. All right, here it is. Since we're talking about parents and families, what's a funny or embarrassing moment? that happened in your family that you still laugh about to this day? So I have so many. Most of them involve me being an embarrassment or causing hilarity. can't imagine. Can't imagine. But the one that I think of, because it's like a parenting one, my dad, when my brother and I were little, we went to visit and hang out with him. And he made us manwich, know, sloppy joes. And my brother was like, did not want to eat it. they don't exactly look good. Like, Jesse just didn't want to eat it. Now, it was my first time having it too, but like I tore it up because Gina likes food. Doesn't matter. Of all kinds. Of all kinds. So anyways, to this day, we still laugh about it if we bring up the word sloppy, the term sloppy joke, or if we bring up the word man-wedge, and we all bust out laughing because my dad was so mad. He was so mad at my brother. He was like, you're gonna eat that man-wedge. And my brother's like crying like, don't want to eat that manwich. I don't want to eat it. Pretty sure he had like a physical experience, that's what we'll say, with the manwich. Because I don't know what people during that day are listening to us, but it wasn't pretty. And my dad was like, no, you have to eat this. And so to this day, even though was kind of traumatic for my brother, we all just keep laughing about it. Like, why were you so obsessed with the manwich, dad? Why were you such an angry elf about the man witch? Like it wasn't that big of a deal. yeah, and it's usually around food. I think one time like I like was laughing really hard or made my brother laugh and he like blew like lemonade out of his nose and then he still had to eat his food. It's always something. We were always just... What's really funny is my story is about food too. See, we didn't even know that. We didn't plan it. Well, rather than something that... My dad made us eat. It was rather something he was really excited about eating. So he shows up home one day. My sister's definitely in high school. I might've been. And he starts, he's like, I went by Sam's Club today and I got a slice of their pizza. And it was the best pizza I've ever had. And he starts talking about how great this pizza is. And he's like, so I had to bring some home. So he gets out the pizza and he, I think it's frozen and you put it in the oven or whatever. And he's like, you guys are going to love this. It's the best pizza. Like he's hyping it up. He's hyping it, hyping it, hyping it. And finally, yeah, here's the hype. he, he's hyping, hyping, hyping. And finally my sister who is fluent in sarcasm, you would love her. She's like, did you, do you like the Sam's pizza, dad? And then we all just start laughing and he realizes I've gone too far. And he's trying to backtrack, but he can't. And still to this day, I promise you, when my family is together, if somebody, particularly my dad, says that they like something, we will go, is it as good as Sam's pizza though? I mean, this is now what, 15 years, probably later? And we will still go, but was it as good as Sam's pizza? I love it. This is family, man. This is why family is so important, because you laugh together, you cry together, you share these really close memories. and it's sort of solidified in your memory banks more or less. And that's why parent involvement when we talk about schools is probably one of, in a lot of cases, the most important aspect of student success. And that's why we're talking about this topic today. In fact, this is such an important topic, we're gonna address it in two episodes, okay? So episode one today, we're gonna talk about voices from the home front and talk about parent perspectives on education. But we're going to do a part two of this where we talk to school leaders about their view on parents. And we'll talk to some innovative school leaders who are talking about how to engage parents in really healthy ways. Today though, we're talking about what do parents think about schools and to do that, we have a special guest. She is near and dear to our hearts because she's actually on our team. Kara Mallory is going to be joining us today and she works at Growing Leaders as our secondary curriculum coordinator. Not only is she a former educator, She is also a mom of three and she is totally passionate both about education and about parenting. She's going to share some of her insights on the role that parents play in student success and school leadership. am so excited about this interview and Honestly, Jealous, I didn't get to sit down with both of you when you interviewed Kara, but I can't wait to hear all that she has to say about the topic. She does have such a rich background as an educator and leader, and she's deeply committed to connecting with parents and promoting student wellness. But that's enough from me. Let's hear from her. I am a parent, so I have a 16-year-old, a 7-year-old, and a 4-year-old as we film this episode. I am a former teacher. I taught middle school math and special education and served as a middle grades math administrator for a year. I've taught in-person, virtual, and then I came here to Growing Leaders. I had used our curriculum when I was in the classroom teaching seventh grade and fell in love with teaching leadership to students. So now I get to help educate others on how to do just that. But the reason I'm so passionate about this role of developing students and how parents can play a part in that is I noticed with my first kiddo when she went off to kindergarten, we had spent a lot of time together, even though she was in preschool, a lot of time together at home. And then when she went off to kindergarten, we had hardly any time together anymore, especially if you're a parent who is working and your kid's not only in school till 2.30, three o'clock, but then if you're not picking them up until five or six o'clock because you're a working parent, your time with your kids is so minimal. When that shift happens in kindergarten and then at last kindergarten till 12th grade. So how do we bridge this gap between Parents and teachers is really where my heart lies. Teachers are honestly with our kids more than parents are sometimes. So they're seeing the good and the bad in our kid, but we're seeing some different things at home. So how do the two collaborate and make our kid a whole child better together? Imagine dealing with a teenager, a seven-year-old, and a four-year-old all at the same time. That's like having three different stages of childhood chaos at once, which is hilarious. Luckily, her kids are amazing. And also, Kara and her husband Brian are really great parents. Absolutely. And switching from classroom teaching to developing curriculum sounds like such a journey. It makes me think about how the experiences are different in teaching, in different teaching environments. Like they shape your approach to education. Yeah, they do. It also means that Kara is really perfectly situated to give us the thoughts that she is on the relationship between schools and parents. She's played both of these roles. In fact, she's played them at the same time. So when we talk about parent-school relationships, I specifically asked her, what are some of the indicators of healthy parent-school engagement? I think the biggest key here is just creating transparency on both sides. I think for teachers to create transparency, but then for parents to also create transparency. And what I mean when I say that is, let's say it's something's going on at home, whether that's within your marriage or it's just a busy season with you have younger kids who are in sports or older kids that are in sports. And therefore the other ones are stretched with their schedule. Being transparent about that, like, hey, our life is really busy and it's not an excuse, but it also helps the teacher to understand, your child's tired today at school. Why? Well, the why behind that? Because their expectation is they stay focused for the time that they are with them. but really what's happening at home might not enable that to happen every single day. And so being upfront and honest and communicating between both parties, I think is extremely important. I think expressing concerns openly for teachers in particular, think not just calling parents when there's something bad to say, but when there's something good to say and that makes when they're. is something wrong, makes the conversation 10 times easier on both fronts because you have this rapport and this relationship and you know that the teacher cares about your child. I always try when I do get those calls and those emails because they're going to happen just to try and listen with an open mind and also be as direct as I can when I am speaking with others. love, love, love that she said transparency. It really does make a difference. It's like letting your friends know why you're late, right? Everybody appreciates the heads up. It feels so much later if I haven't said anything, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I totally agree. And it's interesting to think about how this principle plays out with homework. Yeah. Imagine the relief for both parents and teachers if everyone just communicated openly about those rough nights. Yeah, indeed, they can get rough, for sure. Kara actually gave us a great example of this. I think a great example of expectations and priorities between parents and leadership and how I navigated that was homework. And so when I was teaching and would give homework, of course I expected my kids to come back with it completed. What I realized when I had kids in school was that there's just some nights where it's not all going to happen. And so I would sometimes look at my middle schooler when she was in middle school and say, it's 10 o'clock, we're done. We're all going to bed. You're not doing your best work anymore and we all need sleep. And then I would communicate with the teacher, hey, we didn't get it done. Here's what happened. We hit a roadblock, took her too long. She couldn't focus or we had the XYZ going on. Can we get an extension or whatever? And sometimes the answer is no, but I think being upfront and honest about this is why we couldn't get it done. boy, do I remember those late night homework sessions. It's like the ultimate test of patience, certainly for the kid, but definitely for the parent. For sure. I'm about to go through that myself all over again. I have a kindergartner. Well, he's going to be a kindergartner and it's... all about the balance, right? It's like knowing when to push through and knowing when to call it a night. Yeah, absolutely. So with this experience in her tool belt, I asked Kara what she thought schools can do to break down the barriers that are often erected between the home life and school life. I think the biggest thing I continue to hear about is just communication. think most of the... Other things I hear about are all rooted in communication. Communication back to parents feeling left in the dark. From everything to what are you doing about a bullying situation to what is your smartphone policy because their kids are coming home and telling them one thing and then you're hearing something different in the meeting. Then you're hearing something different from this teacher. And so being really clear with what that communication is across all channels from an administrator standpoint and a teacher standpoint back to parents, think. when it's not clear that leads to concern. Clear is kind. So I think everything comes back to parent communication, both from leadership and from teachers themselves from their classroom. I think the other thing I hear a lot about is just school politics in general, or leaving teachers alone because they've just been there too long. So they get to do their own thing and having different expectations for our veteran teachers versus our new teachers. I hear a lot of parents have concerns about new teachers, particularly as we exit this pandemic and we have teachers who didn't get a full teacher internship experience and things like that. Are they really ready to come teach my kid and I believe in rookie teachers I think sometimes they are the most energized and the best ones that we can possibly get but parents don't know enough and I think sometimes there's not enough communication about it either about what they have gone through and what they have done to prepare to be in those classrooms. And I think my daughter has a RICci teacher this past year. And one of the concerns that she's said to me from a parent side of things is parents coming in and saying, well, how would you do this? What would you do with me? she's like, I'm 20 something. I don't know. I've never parented. So that's your lane. Whereas my expertise is on this side. And I think that's a unique thing for RICci teachers too is, hey, I'm not a parent yet. So there are things that you know that I don't. And there's things that I know that you don't from the education side of things. love that she said that communication is really the backbone of everything. It's like when your GPS isn't clear, right? If your GPS isn't right, then you just end up getting lost and frustrated. And that happens to a lot of us. Exactly. And imagine both a parent and a teacher in the same school or district. The need for clear communication must be even more crucial. Absolutely. In fact, I asked her what it's like to play that dual role, the one that many teachers have to play. In fact, several people listening to this are probably educational leaders who are both in the classroom or working at the school and also have a child who attends that same school. So I asked Kara to share what advice she had for teachers and educational leaders who are currently in that dual role. It's definitely a tricky one and one that requires some balance. think for the administrator that's listening, I want to tell a quick story. So I taught, the honor of teaching the principal's daughter one school year. And, hi, Kathy, if you're listening. And she I think we had to wrestle. I remember we sat down in a meeting one time and it was a meeting to talk about our math department, or is what I thought, we talked about math department. And she started bringing up some concerns on a test that we had written. You haven't clearly defined these words in the classroom. They didn't know what deposit and withdrawal meant, I think was one of the questions she was talking about, pointing out on our test. And I finally, as I listened and kept listening, I was like, wait a second, are you coming at this as our principal? Do you truly have an issue with the content that we designed as a team? And if so, why is the whole team not present for this meeting? Or are you coming at this because you have an issue because your child didn't know what deposit and withdrawal meant? So who am I talking to in this meeting? And I had to ask that question, where are you coming at this from? And I think she had to wrestle. We had to come back and have additional meetings. And by the end of the school year, we were finally, we were able to sit down later and sit. She was able to say, I had to decide when I showed up to meetings. Was I coming as the principal or was I coming as mom? And so I think for the administrator that's listening, yes, you are both. And I'm a big fan of moms can both be working moms and stay at home moms and all the different types of moms, super moms. But I think sometimes you do have to decide how am I showing up in this medium? I'm advocating for my child or I'm advocating for the school for this department that I'm speaking into. I think for teachers that are wearing both of those hats, I think sometimes it's hard. You want your kid to have the best teacher that you know is doing all the best, all the things that you think are the best in their classroom. But I think sometimes we have to remember that It's not all about us, even though we are the teacher and we think this is the best policy and we do know our kids best or this is the best thing to do in the classroom. Our kid at the end of the day is another child in their classroom. They have 20 something of them or 30 something of them, however many are on your roster and they are trying to meet the needs of all those students. And so to give grace in that space of, yes, my kid feels really special to me because they're my kid and I'm in this district. But truthfully. They are another student in that classroom and they're going to treat them the same way that they do every other student in that classroom. They're going to do what's best for them. They're not going to, we shouldn't expect them to think differently of them just because you teach a couple doors down or a neighboring school down the road. like a fairly tough spot to be in, doesn't it? It's tricky when your roles in life overlap like that. No kidding. It must be hard to balance advocating for your own child while respecting the school's authority. I bet there's a lot to consider for parents in similar situations. Absolutely. So the way we dug into that topic was by me asking her what she thought parents were expecting from schools. Sometimes that can feel like a bit of an anomaly, right? Or a mystery. She had some very insightful answers. So my school administrators who are listening, you might want to take notes. Kara's got some really great insights that are going to help you read your parents' minds. Check this out. Yeah, I think I just spoke a little bit about it in this last question, but expecting that my child is not treated like a number. Yes, they are another... kid on the roster, but also not like the prodigal child. There's a fine line there. And so always offering support and respect to those school leaders first and foremost, and really only questioning if it really is a big deal. And I think part of that coming back and questioning is trying not to be reactionary. And that was really, really hard. So I think my advice to other parents would always be to give time. to reflect before hitting send on an email. And we're all going to have frustrating days, but before hitting send, before making a phone call, before demanding a meeting, particularly if you're wearing those multiple hats like we talked about earlier, and you're also working in the district or at a neighboring school. I think we can always find middle ground. And if we can't, then there's always somebody else to escalate something to if you truly feel like it's a battle worth fighting. And I think the other component, and this is for both parents and teachers, is that there's mutual respect. I think parents we need to respect. the experience of our school leaders. I always think about if we go to a doctor and they tell us, you have strep throat, I never look at them and be like, are you sure? I trust that they went to medical school and that they know what they're doing and that my test results said that yes, I have strep throat. But I feel like teachers aren't always taught like. treated that same way, we often question them, like, why did you give them that C on that test or fail them or whatever? And when they tell us they're struggling with something specific, we always lean in and question. But our educators are masters at their craft and they've worked really hard to be there and they deserve to be respected for that. And I think for teachers, it comes hand in hand and they need to respect parents that they truly do know their children. While you, better than anyone, while you might have them longer than we do in like the span of a day, often our children are the most comfortable at home. And so we see a different side of our kids that maybe you don't see in the classroom. And so when we come to you and say something about what we're seeing with our own kid at home, trust us that we're not making it up and have a mutual respect for, yeah, you've parented this kid longer than I've had them in my classroom. So you might know a little bit about what you're talking about. Where I'm a master at Minecraft, you're also a master at yours of parenting your child. I love that example of giving. yourself or your parents, that cooling off period, it's great advice. It's sort of like when you get our kids to count to 10, right? Before they respond to a situation, you know somebody's kind of hot-headed, give them little space. Definitely. I mean, I think of my own journey. Yes, I have a kindergartener, but also I have a 20-something-year-old and I've helped to raise him. And I say help because I had help from, I didn't do it alone. And I just think about those moments where I was frustrated or didn't have enough information. What Kara said really just underlines and hits home. And it's just as important for school leaders to help facilitate that calm as well. Yes, absolutely. the communication. It's not just on the parents. It's also, it's a mutually beneficial relationship, right? So we heard from Kara about what parents are thinking. What advice did she have for school leaders about how to engage those parents? Yeah, you know we like to get practical here. We want to give action steps and ideas that you can take with you this week. So she actually had some brilliant, very actionable ideas that school leaders can jump on immediately. And we talked about communication already, Andrew, but I think schools need better and clearer communication to expect any form of involvement. And so I think clear is always kind. So giving those dates that advance notice so that parents can block off their calendars. think if you're in a situation where maybe you're having a parent night or something like that, you can provide childcare for other kids. I that's fantastic too. If you are able and willing and have the space to do that, remove some of those barriers so that parents can show up for some of those things. I put as much information as you can out there. hear all the time. Well, I know enough. about it or I didn't know enough in enough notice to show up. I think clear is always kind and advanced notice is always really important and removing barriers. think anytime there's a value add component. So whether that's hey, you're going to walk away with this tip from this professional. Maybe it's even bringing somebody in like a speaker, which we do some of those events. We've seen the value add that that can bring to parents. They're going to walk away with some tactical tools to implement. I think really helps. I for all grade levels, newsletters are super important. Again, that goes back to communication, just keeping teachers accountable for We're staying in that constant communication, not just through grades and report cards, but all of the other things. Yeah, and I think parents love to see pictures of their kids when they're little, especially when they're in elementary school. My daughter's teacher has an Instagram account that just parents can follow. It's not open to the public, but that way she can post pictures of what they've done throughout the day, and that's really fun. My high schooler, they do on their Facebook page. And so you're always looking, like, is my kid in any of these? You love to see your kids engaging, especially when they're not with you. I think anytime we can invite parents in, again, Yes, that goes with communication, but inviting them in to the spaces, involving them in school events, whether that's being a mystery reader in those lower grades or coming and helping tie-dye shirts in the upper grades, helping with concession stand stuff. Anytime they can be involved and see and get to know those teachers as administrators and the kids that their kids are spending a lot of time with is really important. And then I think lastly, the biggest one is to join your PTA or PTO. Maybe you're not able to serve on the board and be a board member seat, like a vice president or a treasurer or something like that. But if you can get involved with your PTA and your PTO, that really helps in knowing what's going on behind the scenes at a school, being able to advocate for your kids, being able to advocate for the school system as a whole. It kind of gets you in the know a little bit and gets you know, some other parents that are also within that community. That's a great idea. Advanced notice and removing barriers can really make a difference. Absolutely. It's all about making it easier for parents to get involved. And when school leaders take those steps, sets that stage for a stronger partnership and supporting student success. Absolutely. Feels like we're on team together. We are. Yeah. Absolutely. So, I mean, speaking of setting the stage for student success, let's set the stage for some school leaders to have success because they heard a ton of great ideas from Kara today about how they can better engage, communicate with parents, what their parents might be thinking. and there's probably a lot swirling around in their heads. It's too much to get through. We got a DMI. Okay, Gina, DMI for our faithful listeners, of course, stands for don't miss it, meaning the one thing that you and I would identify and say, this is the best thing we heard today that we think our listeners should not miss. So you have an answer for us? I do. It might seem like it's not a DMI because it's just so simple and practical. Sometimes it's just the obvious things. but Kara said about cooling off, giving yourself that time. It's almost like you're It's like you write the email, but you don't send it. Yeah. I've done that before. And so I think a helpful thing to remember is it's not that you don't advocate. It's also that you believe the best. And having raised a child myself, if I put my parenting hat on for a second, and then also having been raised by pretty good parents, I just always remember my parents saying, we're going to believe both of you, meaning we're going to believe the teacher, and we're going to believe you. That's good. And that's a hard tension to live Yeah, that's a paradox of sorts. right. But then it's like, how do we move forward? And so I think when parents take time to believe the best in the situation and then also give themselves time to cool off, it's like, you're not giving up your ability to advocate or to address a concern or an issue. You are leaning in with the best in mind, right? And so, I don't know. It seems simple. but it also can go a long way. Yeah, it's like you're saying, give time to cool off and believe the best, right? And that can be so good, especially because it's easy to miss each other when we're talking about the difference between. But you gotta communicate. You gotta communicate. Absolutely. How about you? Yeah, the thing I wrote down is about expectations, because I think that's one of the biggest gaps is expectations. And it's never... the expectations about core, right? If you were to ask any parent and any teacher, you would go, would you like your kid to learn to read? Yeah. I think I would, right? Do you care about your kid acting with kindness and generosity? What about learning to work on a team or any other of the things that we're doing in school, right? We both agree on the core. It's really the hows, it's the externals, the things around that. And that's where the expectations start to come in because a teacher has a way they design the lesson plan. And the parent hears about that lesson plan and goes, I think that's a dumb way to do that. And they bring even unspoken expectations that they didn't even know they had into a conversation. And all of a sudden, rather than talking about the most essential stuff that we share in common, we're going back and forth about the peripheral stuff that's really not that important. So the way to target that, which Kara gave us such wise advice about, is to communicate your expectations ahead of time. Here's what is expected here. Here's how we interpret what it's gonna look like here. And if parents and teachers know that going in, then we've solved some major issues, or at least removed the potential of a few disagreements in the future. That's really good. That's good. I hope that as you guys have listened today, that you were able to take some really practical, clear steps that... just maybe they're resonating with you right now. Maybe it's things that you knew already, but whether you're a parent listening or you're a parent that's also an educator or you're an educator listening, that you took something from today's episode on how to take healthy next steps to solidifying a positive relationship with those you're working with, whether it's you're working with parents or you're a parent and you're working with educators. So thank you for joining us today on this episode of School on a Mission podcast. before you hit that skip button and move on to your next podcast, we've got a little challenge for you. So thinking about those practical steps, we want you to grab a pen, a notebook, a sticky note, even the back of your hand and write down one action step that you're going to take this week. What's something that you can do? What's something that you're going to investigate, something that maybe you need to read more about or a person that you wanna meet with? Maybe you even wanna take a little extra time and schedule a meeting with your student's principal. or teacher and not to talk about anything hard, but just to connect. Do you got it? Perfect. Now DM us with your action step and let us know what you've done this week so that we can celebrate your success of all the awesome things that you're up to. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold and keep leading your school on a mission. The School on a Mission podcast is produced by Growing Leaders, a Maxwell leadership company. You can find out more about Growing Leaders at GrowingLeaders.com. This podcast was produced by Angelica Oliver and edited by Cam Turner. We'd like to especially thank Kara Mallory for joining us as a guest in today's episode. To find out more about the School on a Mission podcast, head over to School on a Mission podcast.com. This podcast was produced by Angelica Oliver and edited by Jake Decker. This is Voices from the Home Front, parent perspectives on school leadership outro. The School on a Mission podcast is produced by Growing Leaders, a Maxwell leadership company. You can find out more about Growing Leaders at growingleaders.com. This podcast was produced by Angelica Oliver and edited by Cam Turner. We'd like to especially thank Kara Mallory for joining us as a guest in today's episode. To find out more about the School on a Mission podcast, head over to schoolonamissionpodcast.com. This podcast was produced by Angelica Oliver and edited by Jake Decker.